DD lying. What to do?

[Carston]

She’s 13 and we are constantly finding out about little things she has lied about. Sneaking technology into her room at night, having secret social media accounts, faking being ill to avoid PE, taking my clothes without asking and claiming they were in her room and she had no idea. Those are just some examples. Some of the lies are completely pointless but she will never ever admit that she has lied or why. She also has an issue with asking for things. She just takes them. Whatever it is. We are not unreasonable and would generally say yes to most of the requests but she just won’t ask and then will get very upset and say she didn’t do it. We talk to her and agree to all be better at honesty etc and then it just happens again. I’m so upset and it seems like she’s just a compulsive liar.

The latest lie just feels like the final straw to me. What do I do? Get locks on rooms in the house? Seems like an awful way to live. Get her counselling? Take away her phone? I’ve tried talking to her in a non judgmental, non-angry way but the key is she won’t admit to most of the lies.

Seems normal to me, I used to lie to my parents like this. Social media wasn’t a thing but I definitely would’ve had secret accounts if it was. I used to sneak one of those little battery powered TVs into my room and watch it under the duvet. Or listen to music on my disk man until 1 or 2 in the morning.

Don’t know if it will work with her but my mum used to let me make mistakes and then show no sympathy. For example if I moaned about being tired she’d say something like “well, if it’s because you were up late last night then it’s your own fault”. Or if I borrowed something from her or my sister without asking she’d tell me no one would want to be friends with a theif. (That one sounds a bit extreme now I write it)

Have you considered PDA ( Pathological Demand Avoidance) this usually becomes visible when there is a power struggle. Mine didn’t really become apparent until I hit 12ish when I started feeling more like an adult, as teens do, and I didn’t want to be told what to do or have to ask permission to do things.
May seen extreme to some and I might be way off but it’s a possibility. The only way to get her onside if it is PDA is by balancing the power. Show her that you trust her to decide when to switch off tech etc and you’ll likely find that she is sensible enough to come to an agreement with you.
it’s not easy because it goes against everything we know regarding parenting but try giving her a bit more rope.

I’ve got a pre teen who I suspect has adhd. She doesn’t meet the criteria for assessment as she doesn’t show it in all settings as she is very good at masking. One thing that has cropped up as a trait is lying. Children with adhd lie out of self preservation. Mine lies about taking food - she even comes and asks why there’s no xxxx left on the fridge and who’s eaten it when I know for a fact she has. I had to clear her room out for new furniture and found so many sweet/crisps/snack packets under her bed and behind bookcases and when I asked her about it she had no recollection. Her grandmother found similar after staying one weekend when folding bed away and she denied having any food in her room. FWIW she doesn’t have a food issue, she just likes snacks and is a fussy eater. She lies about alsorts such as how permanent marker has got on her uniform or how holes have got in her uninform when it’s clear that scissors have been used and they’ve not just been caught.

Normal life skill.

She's 13, not 8.

Perhaps relax "the rules" a little.

If not, then shel be sneaking and lying even more when she's 14 or 15.

In 3 years, she'll be the age of consent - and in 5 years, she'll be an adult.

Ugh. I just wrote you a long post that's delete itself as my MN page refreshed. Bloody thing.

The gist was that I have an autistic 14 yr old DD who lies about the most weird and wonderful things, not always to gain an advantage.

It's about feeling too overwhelmed to communication, wanting an easy solution to a situation, and feeling anxious. Put her on the spot by asking her if X happened, and she'll deny it.

With your DD, what struck me is that it doesn't sound as if all of those scenarios need "punishment". What's your relationship like with her in general? You're in new territory now too as you try and navigate having an older child, maybe having a different approach would help you both?

In our house we don't have punishment, but we do have natural consequences. So for sneaking the tech into her room, the natural consequence is that every night it's handed to you before bed. That's the consequence of trying to sneak it in.

Personally, I don't think I'd be too bothered about her pinching clothes. I'd be inclined to approach that with humour. I don't think that warrants punishment of any description.

Also, I don't approach my DD with questions about what she's done. That means she has to "admit" her wrongdoing and that's just never going to happen. I find it better to approach it as a matter of fact where you're not seeking a confession from her, but demonstrating that you know and asking for the resolution (whatever that might be). "I see you've borrowed my blue top - can you drop it into the laundry basket please as I need to get to wear it on Tuesday". Don't get drawn into discussions or enter into debate - you're not interested in the lies, focus on the outcome.

I've found the trick is just not to give the lies any oxygen. Ignore them or treat them as a bit of a joke. Focus on positives, and stay matter of fact. Question whether every misdemeanour really needs "a talk" - teenage years are tricky and children are trying to figure out who they are while simultaneously feeling overwhelmed by just about everything. It's not about exerting your authority. Sometimes teens do annoying things, but not every annoying thing warrants a big pow-wow or punishment.

Finally, my DD communicates WAY better via WhatsApp. It takes the difficulty out of communicating, removes the anxiety and makes it feel less confrontational for her. You could try initiating simple conversations via WhatsApp?

None of what you're describing needs to be a big deal. Take the heat out of the situation and it might feel less stressful for both of you.

Unless you are hoping she becomes an olympic athlete then pull her out of PE. I hated it, everyone I knew ( in a girls school ) hated it. Get her to read a book in the library . FGS PE does not matter. The rest of it sounds like pretty normal behaviour for a teenager to me. Go for a walk with at night to make up for the missing PE if you are worried about her health.
Don't worry too much

What rules are you talking about? No tech overnight in her room and she must ask us before downloading apps or making social media accounts. Is this too strict for 13?

Pick your battles

I bet her friends are not allowed to do all the things she says they’re doing.
When dd was a teen I used to ask her to name ‘all the friends’ that did what she couldn’t.
She rarely named any and at most one.

"Sneaking technology into her room at night, having secret social media accounts, faking being ill to avoid PE, taking my clothes without asking and claiming they were in her room and she had no idea"

Actually none of these sound pointless to me? She's pushing boundaries to get concrete benefits. Not that that makes it ok but I'd be more worried if she was telling actual pointless lies just for attention or a thrill.

I agree with the poster who said to focus on the behaviour she's lying about, rather than the lie itself.

If she's lying about social media accounts, why? Talk about social media dangers etc.

If she's lying about stealing clothes, why? Talk about impact on you not being able to find stuff. What clothes does she need that she doesn't have?

It's also normal boundary pushing and sometimes teenagers just need rules and discipline. If she steals your clothes then punish her for stealing your clothes (don't focus on the lie).

As others have said, lying is a pretty normal stage of teenage development and these are all normal things to lie about.

If she was lying about completely pointless things that don't benefit her at all, then I'd be more concerned. But she's just navigating the more adult world and making bad decisions - that's what teenagers do. I don't think it's compulsive lying.

I used to lie loads as a teen and early twenties. It was to avoid trouble, not worry my mum, and because I didn’t trust my relationship with mum. Everything used to get me in trouble and cause a far more serious reaction than it needed, but sometimes I got away with a lie so may as well take my chances. I felt I had no control and was being babied. The more trouble I got into the worse I got with added sneakiness.

I think the lying to get out of PE is probably different and needs to be approached differently.

I know it goes against the grain but perhaps stop punishing for every little thing and work with your DD to have more control and responsibility in her life. Make joint rules and consequences and see how that goes.

I may be off but perhaps there is something specific going on that she doesn’t feel she can tell you about, or generally not feel that she can talk to you about things without getting into trouble. Teens do need to be able to make mistakes and learn but many parents just over react and jump in to discipline and protect. Doesn’t help. obviously I have no idea if that’s happening here but I think you should try to keep an open mind about your own responses to things as well and reflect if there are times when this happens.

good luck!

I don't think just pulling her out of PE because she doesn't like it is the answer. Doesn't that just reinforce the idea that when you struggle with something, you just don't do it?

PE in most schools isn't that bad these days - a lot of schools have gyms etc and give kids the choice of what activity they want to do. It's a lot better than it used to be.

You need to get to the bottom of the issue and support her to face her problems, THEN if she is still really struggling, of course you should talk about alternatives.

You don't just teach teenagers to run away from things that are hard. How do they develop any resilience if you do this?

She'll grow out of it. I've got two girls, they were both like this - the youngest more so. They are both now in their late 20s and haven't grown up to be pathological liars.

The only lie from your list I would be slightly concerned about is secret social media accounts, but then I'd want to know why she's keeping them secret. Maybe it's just she doesn't want her family commenting on her posts? Or she doesn't want her mum to see how sweary she is with her friends? It's probably something innocuous like that but you're not going to get the truth by punishing her.

The rest of your list, meh, didn't everyone lie to escape PE at some point? I agree with the pp, pick your battles. I struggled with my DDs transition from child to teens and social media wasn't so prominent then as it is now, i'd hate to do it all again. My brother has had a really rough time with my DN over the last few years....it's HARD 🙈 In hindsight I would advise to resist the urge to react to every little misdemeanour - if you sweat the small stuff she'll never tell you the big stuff.

Good luck....I think the teen years are natures way of preparing you to feel less sad when they eventually leave home

Good post from SpidersAreShitheads.

A wise friend of mine with children older than mine once said that making an enormous moral issue out of lies and demanding 'the truth' just backs them into a corner, from which no good can come.

If this were mine (and I have had 13yos) I wouldn't be throwing all this into one pot with the common factor 'lying', but treating each issue separately. The clothes borrowing would fall very much under 'pick your battles'. The SM accounts I would be allowing, at her age, with the proviso that I had full access to them and checked them, often at first, gradually less often as she got older/proved herself sensible. (We tailed off checking gradually and had basically stopped by 15 and a few months, as they'd shown themselves responsible by and large). The PE I would be explaining to her that I needed to address it with school, as there is clearly a problem and her addressing it in a temporary short-term fashion every week isn't getting to its root. The lying is simply an age-appropriate (as many have said), albeit non-ideal strategy she is employing to deal with stuff. I think I'd ease back on the talks on the importance of honesty - in this context, honesty is something that grows with time. maturity and trust rather than being imposed, iykwim.

I would question why she feels she has to lie.
Does she have enough clothes that she actually likes? What time limit on her phone does she have?
Every parent has a different style & you sound quite firm, which isn’t a bad thing, but could be why she isn’t always telling the truth.

Sounds very like my 12yr old DD

I would be ensuring that she knows you know she is lying and encourage her to reflect on why she feels the need to lie and the consequences of that on trust:

"" Dd, I know you are lying, you know you are lying and I want you to think about why you are doing that. I am putting my trust in you to be honest and the more you lie to me the more that trust is eroded etc..."

"I can clearly see there is a pattern to you not wanting to participate in PE. We both know, as do your teachers, that it is very unlikely you are ill on a specific day. If there is a real issue then I can help you solve that but I can't until you are honest with yourself and with me".

Ultimately she lies because she is aware that what she is doing is wrong and she doesn't want to get into trouble. She needs to be made aware of that.

Is she doing this on a smart phone?
Get her a basic phone, from Nokia. Have her watch a ted talks about dumb phones, might make her understand more. But generally I wouldn’t care too much about her complaining about how unfair it is etc.
Smart phones and social media generally are addictive and cause so many problems. Not suitable for kids IMO. Even if everyone else has them, mine won’t! I wouldn’t consider it until they’ve got a job and can buy their own, with a minimum age of 16 AND sixth form aged incase they get a paper round. Kids (& quite a few adults really!) just aren’t mature enough, and as their parents we have a responsibility to make those sorts of decisions. Your DD clearly is not mature enough.
What other technology is she taking to her room? You’re going to have to either take the router when you go to bed or take the tech.

Faking illness to avoid PE and taking your clothes are more fairly normal and harmless teenage behaviour. Unless she’s ruining things.

@Mrsjayy totally agree! no phone for a week at age 13 is like chopping their arm off! I have lots of friends who do this & it is far too extreme imo. They do homework on phones, listen to music & message friends. It's not just about SM. I couldn't live without my phone for a week! It's the lazy parenting way of coming up with punishments I think. Be more creative.

She's lying to avoid blame/get out of things. Totally normal. She knows what she wants and doesn't want and thinks she knows what's best for her but she still having her decisions /boundaries made for her so she lies to try and and get round them.

Firstly pick your battles, don't die on every hill. Otherwise you're just on at her all the time.
Secondly a consistent punishment, I found loss of phone works well. Just for a few hours. (If you go too big with punishment there's no incentive to behave).
Manage the environment so yeah stuff like locking phones etc away at night.
I would send her to school on pe day and let school battle with whether she does it. I had a thing with my girls around feeling ill and being ill and that they couldn't have time off every time they felt ill.
Honestly it gets so much better, eldest was awful 11-17 and middle one 14-19. They are both in their twenties now and totally wonderful. I had a toddler as well during their teen years 😧
There's a good book about how to talk to your teen so they listen and how to listen to your teen so they talk.

I have a 13 year old - no screen in room overnight, no social media accounts without telling us etc - these are our expectations too

i don’t agree with the poster

Lying is often a passing phase. The critical thing is not to be confrontational bc that will not work.

She needs to know you love her no matter what.

To reset the relationship, I'd let things go for a few days, keep everything calm and quiet, try to set up a nice thing like a dessert she likes or whatever, and have a little chat. Say hey, I know we've had issues with me getting angry about you being untruthful and I want us to repair our relationship. I know that being 13 is not easy (it's not) and I want you to know you can come to me and I'll listen. I'm always doing my best but I don't always get it right. It would mean a lot to me if you could try to be honest with me and I'll do my bit to try tovmake that easy for you.

Teen behaviour can be extremely trying and the fewer fallouts you have, the more likely it is she'll make good decisions. While this is deeply frustrating behaviour, it can be a hell.of a lot worse ie. running away, drugs etc so try to keep her close.

I’m always amazed at how addictive phones are and how some parents really don’t realise the effect they have on young children. Generations of people survived without their phones quite happily. I actually think it’s lazy parenting to let your child have free rein on their devices. OP there are apps you can get to monitor what your child is doing on a phone, with time limits etc. They are a luxury, not a necessity and I think at 13 you have a perfect right to control how and when they use it.