DD lying. What to do?

[Carston]

She’s 13 and we are constantly finding out about little things she has lied about. Sneaking technology into her room at night, having secret social media accounts, faking being ill to avoid PE, taking my clothes without asking and claiming they were in her room and she had no idea. Those are just some examples. Some of the lies are completely pointless but she will never ever admit that she has lied or why. She also has an issue with asking for things. She just takes them. Whatever it is. We are not unreasonable and would generally say yes to most of the requests but she just won’t ask and then will get very upset and say she didn’t do it. We talk to her and agree to all be better at honesty etc and then it just happens again. I’m so upset and it seems like she’s just a compulsive liar.

The latest lie just feels like the final straw to me. What do I do? Get locks on rooms in the house? Seems like an awful way to live. Get her counselling? Take away her phone? I’ve tried talking to her in a non judgmental, non-angry way but the key is she won’t admit to most of the lies.

soundsnormalish to me

i hated pe i skived most of them made up notes from my parents etc-had anxiety (not recognised then) and couldnt cope with getting in the showers etc

also lied alot then refused to apologise just coldnt do it

Honestly my school experience improved so much when I got my mum to speak to the school so I didn’t have to do PE! I would get so anxious I actually would get sick on PE days, it was awful.

I despise lying. But here I wonder if she is feeling forced to lie because you are controlling with her.

Why is she forced to have a SM account in secret? Would you kick up a fuss about her having one?
Technology in room - are you overly controlling with this? Could you make a fair compromise about it going off at a certain time/not used overnight/at the table/during family time
PE - what's the issue here? Being teased about her body? Is she very unfit and finds it hard - both issues can be addressed.

Why do we have to keep doing something we don't like, struggle with? Why can't we just give it up?

@Elfblossom Well we can, of course. And by the time we're adults, we can pretty much do this whenever we want.

But hopefully by then, we've learned that it isn't always the best thing to throw up our hands and give up at the first sign of something being hard.

Whilst children are young, it is a great opportunity to encourage and support them to develop their resilience. Sometimes children need to be supported to push through the slight discomfort that goes with learning a new skill, or trying a new thing, or persisting at something that is hard.

And yes in my mind that includes PE - which is part of the national curriculum and teaches a lot of important skills which are not only relevant to 'sporty kids'.

If we teach kids that they can give up every time they don't like something or find it hard, then they will not develop resilience or persistence - which are pretty key skills in life if you want to deal with pretty much anything that life is going to throw at you in the future. Nobody can live a life free of struggle and discomfort, however much we'd all like that for our kids.

Of course children should be supported if they are genuinely struggling and a small number won't be able to participate in certain things. But you don't just let them give up before they've given it their best shot and been supported to try. All that does is reinforce their idea that they can't do it before they've even tried, which isn't particularly helpful for anyone.

We have said that if she wants a social media account she can have one but she must let us know about it. She’d rather not have one than do that! Tech in her room- she goes to bed at 9 and has to leave her phone downstairs. Is this overly controlling for 13?

PE - as she won’t admit she has any issue with it it is hard to tell! She’s not overweight, but not particularly sporty. She may just not want to or there might be something about it she finds particularly humiliating. DH wants to set up a meeting at the school to get to the bottom of it.

Yes this seems to be it for her.

We have said that if she wants a social media account she can have one but she must let us know about it. She’d rather not have one than do that! Tech in her room- she goes to bed at 9 and has to leave her phone downstairs. Is this overly controlling for 13?

@Carston No, of course not. All of these things are perfectly normal for 13.

I lied a lot, and also refused PE.
now I’m not saying this is why your DD is doing this, but I lied as I couldn’t trust/relate to my mum.
my mum was an older mum (I am also an older mum so make of that what you will)
if I tried to confide in her I felt that she was so far away from my experience she couldn’t offer good advice. I always got patted on the back and told that things would work themselves out - I mean they always did, but at that age my problems felt like the end of the world.
I would lie because I could get away with it - would lie to avoid having the awkward conversation of the real problem. With PE I was extremely body conscious, I was also painfully aware that we were quite poor so my pe kit wasn’t the same brand as everyone else. I wasn’t very good at anything either.
Stupid stuff.
but to a teenager trying to find their own way and place in the hierarchy of life it’s big stuff.
my daughter isn’t at teen age yet, but the things I swore I would do.
keep on top of trends/fashions - relate to my daughter at every age. No matter how hard it was.
listen - I mean properly listen, never ever tell my DD that her problems were small/unimportant. Make time to spend quality bonding time with her that she feels she can tell me anything. Anything at all.
build my DD’s confidence up so that she isn’t as affected by the vipers known as other teen girls.

its important that she knows you know she’s lying, and I believe consequences for the act and the lie. Be consistent.

(this is just my honest experience of my actions, I’m not saying your DD is the same, it’s just another perspective for you to consider)

Are you sure you're not me??!! I could have literally written this about us and our DD (10)

The compulsion and the complete forgetting of consequences were some of the things that eventually prompted us to go for an assessment for ADHD (no outcome yet)

It's absolutely not like she doesn't know right from wrong (she's very quick to tell me when someone else says or does the wrong thing) but in that moment it's almost like she can't help herself or forgets that those rules apply to her too.

We gave up taking away her favourite things as a punishment as she just forgot she had them 🤦🏼‍♀️

Agree with this, particularly the turning off wifi element. The tech is useless without it.

@MoreDollies sorry but this sentence really made me laugh "We gave up taking away her favourite things as a punishment as she just forgot she had them 🤦🏼‍♀️"

@AfterTheSummer very interesting

Nothing to be concerned about. When teenagers lies are so blatant it's best to call them out on it and laugh about them. We have a mysterious house elf who 'borrows' my clothes. And I ask if my daughter is she can get the elf to hang bits back in my wardrobe when they've done. It takes the edge off the conversation. We joke about PE-itis which seems to come on very quickly just before PE. And then with other silly lies we start singing Shaggy at her which I thinks acts as a deterrent in itself.

Kids will always lie about their interactions with other kids, on social media or otherwise. The amount of times I lied about phoning friends when I was a teen. Again encourage good natured conversation about stuff rather than making it sound like you are monitoring or disapproving. Share what you do on social media and encourage open discussion about how old fashioned you are. That usually prompts my daughter into wanting to share how cool she is because she got a DM from her favourite YouTuber etc.

If your daughter was creating full-on delusional lies with a narrative, I'd be concerned, but the shoulder shrug 'wasn't me' type lies are less of a concern. Pick your battles. Let her know, you know they are lies, but in a good natured way. Only put on the strict, disapproving parent act when it really matters (ie they've gone to far helping themselves to money from your wallet, or there are safety concerns about what she is sharing online etc.)

We have said that if she wants a social media account she can have one but she must let us know about it. She’d rather not have one than do that! Tech in her room- she goes to bed at 9 and has to leave her phone downstairs. Is this overly controlling for 13?

We did the same and then discovered he had a second phone at 14. We gave up. That included paying for it (had it on a contract before), just turned on the wifi off at nights.

PE you need to address with school. The teacher may be the problem.

My ex was a pathological liar so it was difficult handling my son's lying phase so I came down quite hard on him. Told him when it was important or serious no one would believe him as he always lied. Didn't want him turning out like his dad. DS was looking forward to high school but during holidays started dreading it more and more. I discovered that he was going through puberty before his friends so didn't want to use the communal shower. It's good your DD wears a tank top and shorts but maybe talk about body image and handling what others say. If she loved sports previously I'd try and get to the bottom of it. All the best, it will get better.

But the OP didn't say her daughter had given up everything - just PE so, why not?

Why can't we stop national curriculum robot children wearing blazers in 33⁰ weather and boys play rugby girls do dance and allow some individuality to join us in 2024.

We no longer have to be prepared by schooling for the factory floor and yet that's what it's still designed for.

Continuing to push children to do something that makes them hate it instead of just dislike it or be indifferent to it isn't building resilience or character. It's crushing them.

It's 2024, we have progressed so much and yet the education system is changing the least and in fact is trying desperately to cling to its old ways.

Just like you can't expect honestly from a teen who's truth is punished, you can't engage a teen in PE by telling them they have to do or they'll fail at live because they haven't learned resilience by continuing to do something which makes them want to curl up and die.

Are you neurotypical by any chance? And were always picked for a team?

Not sure what NT/ being picked for a team has to do with anything, but it's a no on both counts to that.

But the question you asked me was 'why do we have to keep doing something we struggle with? Why can't we just give up?' and I gave you the answer. To develop resilience. Something that a lot of young people are sadly lacking.

Teachers and parents obviously also have a hugely important role in facilitating and supporting in the right way for the individual, and it sounds like a lot of your beef is with a lack of correct support. Obviously, they are two sides of a coin, and if the right support is not in place, then trying to force the child is pointless and potentially damaging.

But with the right support in place (which parents often need to facilitate and push for), children should be encouraged to try things, to stick at things, and to conquer their fears and discomfort - that is what builds resilient humans.

I don’t think that this is normal teenage behaviour at all. I had 4 kids.

😆 I mean I genuinely don't understand how she just forgot about a giant Lego set or her My Little Pony Dream Castle (obvs when she was younger) but you would think she would have literally missed those?! My garage looked like a jumble sale!

It will only be a problem until she's moved out. She's desperately trying to be independent and not accountable to anyone, but give her time. Don't challenge her constantly about her lies as they're all pretty trivial and don't lecture her either because neither will have an effect. It's not about the lying. I don't believe she's a compulsive liar from your post.
I was rather like this (a) out of laziness and not wanting to talk more than absolutely essential and (b) out if embarrassment from being caught out.
She'll likely stop as she matures, especially if you stop banging on about it. You don't have to pretend you believe her though.

No one should be punishing a child. Consequences, yes. Talking to them, yes. Looking for solutions, yes. Suggesting strategies, yes. Helping them with their struggles, yes. Punishment is for your enemies!

Agree with this 100%

I used to write my own letters to get out of PE. I wouldn't have dreamed of borrowing my mum's clothes, but I for sure would read under the covers after I was told it was bedtime which is the 90s equivalent of no phones at bedtime!

All that is described by the OP is basically struggle for independence. It is you who makes the conflict. You need to remove the conflict from the equation as much as possible.

Has she always been a liar, even when younger?

As a parent helper at school I knew a boy who seemed to me like a compulsive liar - often for no actual gain.

He was about 8 at the time and I did find him a rather disturbing child and wondered what he'd turn out like as an adult.

Strict parents make sneaky kids… maybe you’re a bit too judgemental. ‘No I did not behave like this when I was a teen’ she probably feels pretty far removed from you so won’t feel comfortable approaching you with things she wants / wants to do.