DD lying. What to do?

[Carston]

She’s 13 and we are constantly finding out about little things she has lied about. Sneaking technology into her room at night, having secret social media accounts, faking being ill to avoid PE, taking my clothes without asking and claiming they were in her room and she had no idea. Those are just some examples. Some of the lies are completely pointless but she will never ever admit that she has lied or why. She also has an issue with asking for things. She just takes them. Whatever it is. We are not unreasonable and would generally say yes to most of the requests but she just won’t ask and then will get very upset and say she didn’t do it. We talk to her and agree to all be better at honesty etc and then it just happens again. I’m so upset and it seems like she’s just a compulsive liar.

The latest lie just feels like the final straw to me. What do I do? Get locks on rooms in the house? Seems like an awful way to live. Get her counselling? Take away her phone? I’ve tried talking to her in a non judgmental, non-angry way but the key is she won’t admit to most of the lies.

Just to add to those already saying it, but this is completely normal behaviour. Both my kids (teens) are pretty good and easygoing and I still get a bit of this from them - particularly borrowing my clothes without asking. My daughter proudly showed me a sock puppet she'd made in textiles - she'd used my new socks without asking me!

They will grow out of it.

I wouldn't worry unduly unless the lies escalate or are about really serious matters.

@Carston
@Mrsjayy has already touched on maybe contacting the school's pastoral care teacher, (if there is one). And other PPs have commented about what issues there can be regarding PE.
My first thought on reading your opening post was - do you know if there is anything going on for your daughter in school, (apart from the PE problem), which could be causing her to behave like this, eg, bullying?
What procedures does the school have for parents who have concerns about their child, eg, is there a pastoral care teacher, or would it be her form teacher whom you would approach?
That's where I'd be going.
(Apologies if I'm repeating something which PPs have already suggested).

Also, remembering from my own childhood, when I lied – even about things I'd really obviously done – it was primarily so as not to get into trouble. If they're not going to get into trouble they probably don't feel that pressure so much.

Skipping PE would be not on for me, so I'd be focusing on that particularly.

Put screen time locks on her devices so she can’t go on SM overnight, let her have them if she wants but control what she can access. My son also can’t download without approval, it’s to keep him safe. I’m very clear on the SM rules not being about not trusting him but other people and the dangers, that I know he makes the right choices but others don’t and lie.

Her phone has to be locked up every night, and wifi turned off.
You can't trust her so watch out for her safety more and don't lend her your best clothing items until she is less devious.

Don't ask her to admit she lied or explain why, no point as she will just dig herself in further.

Just tell her you know she has done it, invite her to suggest a fair consequence/solution, if she cannot come up with something you do it. Whether that is technology removed and kept in your room overnight, phone heavily control by parental controls, etc

Have chats (not after incidents, just general chats) on what integrity is, how it is easily lost and very difficult to restore, and how others will perceive you/judge you as untrustworthy after even one lie. Drip feed in examples day to day, don't expect her to change for a long time, but plant the seeds for her to think about the type of person she wants to be.

I would stop giving her the opportunity to lie. So rather than asking if she took your clothes, I would present the fact, that I found them in her room. Tell her you are going to punish your clothes for wandering by locking them in your room. She isnt mature enough to use social media responsibly , and there are people who will happily take advantage of that, so I would only allow tech under supervision, with all of it locked away at night. Put away anything she might steal. She won’t like it, but you are the adult, dont engage in discussion about it, but tell her you will revisit your decisions in a month, so she can save any arguments for then.Sacking off PE is for the school to deal with, but I would tell them that there are no health reasons for her not to participate. I would want accurate information about her whereabouts, and I would be checking, every time. It’s my belief that firm boundaries help teenagers navigate a scary time. She wont thank you yet, but better this than her telling you later that she was dangerously out of control and you should have stopped her

I read your post and thought this was us 5 years ago!
It is hard, but I promise it does get better. Our daughter is now 18 and she is the kindest most beautiful young lady now.
I found this article helpful…

If you have a teenager, or a soon-to-be-teen, this is for you...

Remember, stick with them 💛

Dear Mom and Dad,

Please stick with me.

I can’t think clearly right now because there is a rather substantial section of my prefrontal cortex missing. It’s a fairly important chunk, something having to do with rational thought. You see, it won’t be fully developed until I’m about 25. And from where I sit, 25 seems a long way off.

It doesn’t matter that I’m smart; even a perfect score on my math SAT doesn’t insulate me from the normal developmental stages that we all go through. Judgement and intelligence are two completely distinct things.

And, the same thing that makes my brain wonderfully flexible, creative and sponge-like also makes me impulsive. Not necessarily reckless or negligent but more impulsive than I will be later in life.

Please stick with me.

So when you look at me like I have ten heads after I’ve done something “stupid” or failed to do something “smart,” you’re not really helping.
You adults respond to situations with your prefrontal cortex (rationally) but I am more inclined to respond with my amygdala (emotionally). And when you ask, “What were you thinking?” the answer is I wasn’t, at least not in the way you are. You can blame me, or you can blame mother nature, but either way, it is what it is.

At this point in my life, I get that you love me, but my friends are my everything. Please understand that. Right now I choose my friends, but, don’t be fooled, I am watching you. Carefully.

Please stick with me.

Here’s what you can do for me

1. Model adulting.

I see all the behaviors that you are modeling and I hear all of the words you say. I may not listen but I do hear you. I seem impervious to your advice, like I’m wearing a Kevlar vest but your actions and words are penetrating. I promise. If you keep showing me the way, I will follow even if I detour many, many times before we reach our destination.

1. Let me figure things out for myself.

If you allow me to experience the consequences of my own actions I will learn from them. Please give me a little bit of leash and let me know that I can figure things out for myself. The more I do, the more confidence and resilience I will develop.

1. Tell me about you.

I want you to tell me all the stories of the crazy things you did as a teen, and what you learned from them. Then give me the space to do the same.

1. Help me with perspective.

Keep reminding me of the big picture. I will roll my eyes at you and make all kinds of grunt-like sounds. I will let you know in no uncertain terms that you can’t possibly understand any of what I’m going through. But I’m listening. I really am. It’s hard for me to see anything beyond the weeds that I am currently mired in. Help me scan out and focus on the long view. Remind me that this moment will pass.

1. Keep me safe.

Please remind me that drugs and driving don’t mix. Keep telling me that you will bail me out of any dangerous situation, no anger, no lectures, no questions asked. But also let me know over and over and over that you are there to listen, when I need you.

1. Be kind.

I will learn kindness from you and if you are relentless in your kindness to me, someday I will imitate that behavior. Don’t ever mock me, please and don’t be cruel. Humor me-I think I know everything. You probably did as well at my age. Let it go.

1. Show interest in the things I enjoy.

Some days I will choose to share my interests with you, and it will make me feel good if you validate those interests, by at least acting interested. One day when the haze of adolescence lifts, you will find a confident, strong, competent, kind adult where a surly teenager once stood. In the meantime, buckle in for the ride.

Please stick with me.

Love,

Your Teenager

https://grownandflown.com/letter-from-teen-to-parents/

Lots of advice to punish, but punishment will only make the behaviour worse, and may be why she lies about certain things. She’s getting older and wanting to push boundaries and stretch her independence. If you clamp down hard and she doesn’t understand why, then she’ll lie and sneak.

I’d consider counselling (for all of you, not just her) and I’d also suggest reading Alfie Coen’s book, Unconditional Parenting. It’s probably the best parenting book out there and I think some of his advice will help address the root causes of the lying.

Definitely normal teenage behaviour, especially at this day and age.

It really isn't. Not among teens I know.

I would suggest you move away from punishing her - punishments are clearly not working anyway, but you get to a point where you have to be more cooperative generally rather than yielding a stick.

My younger daughter has always been extremely challenging and I found out early on that punishment made no difference. But talking to her does. And it's hard because you don't get the satisfaction of knowing that you have ticked the box in the parenting manual that demands a punishment.

My daughter found me talking to her about she had done much more demanding than losing her phone. I made sure she knew she had crossed a line. It is a lot of work of course. So much easier to take the phone or cancel an event. But when she is 16 it will be so much easier to help her if you have a good relationship and cooperative way of dealing with conflict x

You’re definitely in the minority then - even from
this post you’ll see it’s normal teenage behaviour. She’s not out selling herself on a street corner, she’s using her phone at night when she shouldn’t be and taking her mums clothes to wear.

This sums up why I lied too - I felt very little was in my control as a child/teen (not helped by strict parents). Lying gave me a sense of control, and if I got punished for something I felt wasn't an issue/bad I just got sneakier. I became better at lying and felt I couldn't open up to them/didn't trust their opinions or judgement. It also ended up feeling like a battle against my parents by the end - if they punished me for something, then I'd get a sense of victory if I got away with the next naughty thing/lie.

I'd say rather than going down a punishment route, you should work on trust with your daughter, see if you can instil a more positive relationship and get her to open up to you naturally.

She is afraid to risk a rejection, so taking action herself is what she does, then she cannot handle someone being upset, so she denies that she is the cause of that upset.

It's not her intention to upset you. And I think it's worth actually saying that to her 'I know it's not your intention to upset me or make me cross'.

You have to guess her emotion and try to verbalise it because she can't.

But then again she cannot stand the vulnerability of you guessing her innermost feelings so she would reject a statement from you like 'I know you might be afraid I'll say no if you ask for the top'. That would be met with 'No! I'm not afraid of your, just get out of my room'

It's tricky.

There is an emotional reason that she is skipping PE.
Do they have to change into PE gear at school? Likely to be that or the fact that she feels she is 'bad' at sports.

Whatever it is, she'd do PE if she felt she could do it.

She's protecting herself from something that feels harmful by not doing PE.
Or else half the class are doing it, so she's trying to fit in with that group.

What's frustrating with teenagers is that at age 13 she actually doesn't know sometimes what her feelings are or why she's behaving like that.

She might not know why she's lying until she reflects on that at age 22.

This is usually a kick back because of strictness. How strict are you?

I think most teens tell a lot more lies than you think!

OP, I don't have any advice but if it's any consolation I absolutely lied through my teeth about these sorts of things when I was a teenager. I've grown up into a relatively functional and honest adult*

*Not a lie

I think you need to pin it down to the fact if she lives in your house then she lives by your rules. Any lying related to house rules such as no technology in bedrooms, borrowing your clothes and going in your bedroom have direct and clear consequences. House rules are part of any house share and she needs to learn that how she acts at home has a direct impact on who she shares a house with. This is important learning for later in life. Boundaries, rules and consequences should be clear.

Lying about things in her personal or school life should be dealt with in a more compassionate way that are about getting to the route of why she is lying on an emotional level. Maybe there aren’t so strict consequences for these and you show you are able to just sit and listen.

My experience is that if you deal with all lying in a hard consequences way, or if you deal with all lying in a compassionate listening way, then you end up being either too harsh or too soft.

I'm no psychologist but I think there's a difference between teens testing boundaries and adults who tell lies - I have a couple of friends (and family members) who lie all the time, but I'd say it's more in the personality disorder category, they create total fantasies to try and manipulate people/situations. It's not really the same as sneakily reading your phone under your bedsheets when you're meant to be asleep, or lying about staying at a mate's to do homework when you're actually going clubbing (one of my regular lies as a teen! I am now a very honest adult!)

Honestly, I was exactly like that at that age. My mom would obviously get frustrated, punish me etc but ultimately I just grew out of it. It's annoying but definitely in the realms of normal. Continue asserting boundaries and what punishments you see fit (ie, taking her phone off her for periods of time if she's lying making secret accounts etc) and it will pay off eventually.

Teenagers lie all the time. It's part of them growing up. It doesn't make it okay, but it's not an unusual thing to see at this stage of development.
Explain to her why the things she has done are wrong in a way she understands "imagine if I came into your room and took your clothes without asking. How would that make you feel? I feel xyz..." Etc.
Also have that conversation about why she wants to skip PE. Is she being bullied? Does she feel uncomfortable getting changed at school? Does she have an appropriate sports bra to make her feel comfortable?
And when she breaks the rules make sure there are consequences, such as the removal of privileges.

Some of it is accepting that some of this is no big deal and you need to let her deal with the consequences.

some of it, you can change tack. Eg if she wants social media, then you have to check regularly and put parent controls on her phone to keep check on the time spent on it.

if she lies about PE, well maybe that’s something else going on - why does she want to get out of PE and how can you help?

Borrowing clothes - put boundaries in eg she just needs to mention it and put it back.

But labelling everything as a “lie”, just takes you to a place where it all becomes a bit over the top, when some of it is just standard teen behaviour.

She may genuinely feel ill on PE days, anxiety can present that way, especially for children and young people. Your post comes across as you have very negative feelings about her which she may well pick up from your behaviour and that would contribute to her not feeling able to talk to you or ask you. I don't mean this in a jusgemental way, just something for you to consider. I have a 13 year old girl and these last few months have been a challenge! Parenting teens is not easy, but that's normal, they're finding their self, their own place in the world and pushing for independence

I have two teenage girls and as far as I know they don’t lie - or at least not like the OP’s does. I, like others, think it is those with the strictest parents that tend to do this. I have a friend going through hell with her DS and I suspect she has pushed him too much and he’s pushing back harder. I am fairly laid back with my girls and have tried to foster an open and honest relationship with them since they were tiny; I’ve tried to live by don’t sweat the small stuff and try not to overreact to small mistakes/breakages/borrowing make up etc. They know if they have pushed me too far, but that is rare. So far they have told me/shown me messages if anyone has tried to bully them and we’ve worked out strategies together. There are limits on their phones so that they can’t use them after bedtime etc., and they will show me their messages/content if I ask. I can see what they’ve been doing on my phone anyway. In general I think you have to build trust and respect that they are getting older and may make mistakes. Be approachable rather than punishing.

From what I hear lots of girls avoid PE and to be fair always have. Mine like it, so haven’t had this problem. It’ll be the changing rooms or perceived lack of ability. Don’t think I’d make too big of a deal of it if she is otherwise good at school. Not ideal, but not as bad as never going to English or Maths.