My sister wants to be a doctor. AIBU to say no?

[onthebesttrain]

To refusing childcare help

Not only would most medics say run for the hills anyway, most medics, as in 99.999%, don't have a child when starting medical school.

My sister is 10 years younger than me and currently doing a few shifts as a HCA at the hospital. She completed her a levels and has taken the time away to think of her next steps

She got an A in Biology, Chemistry and English Lit

My mum so supportive but suffers with bad MH issues and chronic fatigue. She said she was so proud of her for choosing medicine and that 'We will support her, I've said we can all chip in'

By all she means me and her... and it's a no from me!

AIBU? This isn't the odd but of childcare. This is ridiculous. Not to mention you need to often travel or live miles away at a moments notice for placements as an FY1, FY2

My mum can't take care of my nephew for that amount of time

My mum said she's really shocked I won't even consider it. I said she isn't thinking right and my sister needs to be more sensible

Seeing them both on Sunday... and I think someone needs to give them both a dose of reality

Our dad is a man of few words and won't.

I don't think OP is being unkind at all. She is just being realistic. It is a very tough path and her DSIS's A Levels are undoubtedly the easiest bit of the whole process. She needs to ace the UCAT, ace MMI interviews etc. which are big hurdles before she even gets a place. After that there are many gruelling years and the prize at the end is a ridiculously tough career. All this 'of course she can' 'encourage her to follow her dreams' nonsense when posters haven't a clue (a) who the person is - quite apart from the complications of her life(b) what is actually involved in becoming a doctor is just ridiculous.

And as for refusing constant childcare, of course the OP is within her rights to do that. It would be a huge commitment and it is madly unfair for someone to even consider that a sister should pick up a large part of that. An empathetic person would surely clock that.

Exactly this!!! From experience, I give, give , give to siblings and it’s expected and I’m the bad guy if I say no. Last time my sister watched my kids?? That would be never!!

I don’t think you sound jealous either OP you are being realistic. I’m in my final year of nurse training through the OU so module work at home on night times, working my usual job and going on placements, it has been relentless and I am exhausted by this point. I have very little help with childcare but my kids are school age and I do my placement shifts every weekend when DH is here or days when I can get help. Nursing isn’t easy either without a lot of support especially pre school which is why I’ve waited till mine were older and done it through OU for the part time aspect, I would not have been able to do it at a brick uni

I think some posters think I would be as frank to her as I am here.

Obviously I won't. She has done amazingly well. Absolutely remarkably

But becoming a doctor and going to medical school/training with a child as a single parent just won't work

I hope she will listen to me somewhat because I've seen it first hand

Old colleagues leaving in their groups because they just can't cope with the ridiculous shift patterns and placements, alongside everything else, before you talk about unfair pay

NC fail?

Yeah, that’s the very definition of ‘woke’.🙄

You don't owe anyone child care. Unless you are both able and willing to take on, effectively, a parental role for your sister's child, you need to tell her firmly and clearly that you won't be doing it. And have a sharp word with your mother about making arrangements for other people to do things.

I would say ‘You have my absolute full support Emily, you are super bright and I know you are more than capable of studying medicine. I’ll help when I can on an ad-hoc, here and there basis, but what with working full time, DC1 being a disabled child and what with DC2 issues I just can not commit to any regular childcare, so please don’t consider me as a solid option. When I was a midwife I saw how tough it was for single parents. If you are going to go ahead, you need watertight childcare in place, you can’t just rely on Mum, I suggest you get a childminder, nursery and a few options under your belt. You will be working 16 hour days - nurseries shut at 6pm, you need to think really hard about childcare before pressing ahead. It’s not going to be a case of ‘everyone will muck in’.

I try to condense my shifts into when they are with their father but this is unreliable as he will often change arrangements. Friends, wrap around care, they are now moving into teen years and we all make it work between us, somehow. They can’t wait to see me graduate

Aside from the childcare issue, can she afford to train as a doctor? It's a huge commitment financially as she won't be earning until F1 AFAIK.
You don't get much student loans/bursary and she would still be paying rent/mortgage and all other bills on top. Childcare allowance is unlikely to cover all the childcare needed - people suggesting aupairs don't seem to realise you have to pay them and give them a room in your home (does she have a room?).

I did my nursing training when DCs were in primary school, DH was self employed so he did school runs and we had to claim benefits to pay rent etc as his wages were low as he was part time. I got a bursary but it wasn't a lot and the loan doesn't go far either. I don't know the full details of medical school funding but I do remember looking into it years ago and deciding I couldn't afford to do it!

I have found my university and placement hospital to be very supportive and accommodating

Sorry - where does the whole servant thing even feature on this thread?!

Congratulations!!!! 🥂

@WarningOfGailsMedical school is hard work but (at least the universities I know about through my DH and friends) predictable & stable, definitely possible to manage as a single parent of a primary school aged child. Obviously would need before and after school childcare

Thats the uni side though, and I agree that’s very doable. However once you commence mandatory placements it’s impossible unless you want to step out of parenting and have others take over for several years. The problem these days is people try and do it with kids and then cry foul and think the rules need to be changed for them because they have kids🤯. The reality is you are shifted from place to place, long hours, unsociable hours and poor pay for those years. In my day we used to have our belongings in 2 big laundry bags and have share doss houses for medical students/juniors if we weren’t sleeping on site. We used to wait until we finished until/if we settled down and got married and had kids, and that meant many were too old for kids at that point, but if you did you then we’re in a position to demand flexibility. Nowadays, people cry foul and say they can’t move, they can’t do this, they can’t do that, as they have brought a house, and/or schools, and/or daycare or preschool places. It’s insane.

I agree with you that she’ll need a lot of childcare and I also wouldn’t want to commit to that much regardless of my situation.

Be very clear to her so that she knows from the beginning that she’ll have to find childcare elsewhere. And tell your mum to stop volunteering your services, that’s very rude and I’d be pissed.

Why not?

She has 3 As at A-level

Two science subjects including the mandatory Chemistry

99.999%, don't have a child when starting medical school

Absolutely nowhere near. In my experience, around 5% of medical students have children when they start the course. It will probably be higher for graduate-entry courses.

Well she isn't going to get in with those a levels.

Why not? https://www.medschools.ac.uk/media/3060/uk-medical-school-entry-requirements-2024-entry.pdf

She does need to recognise that she might not be able to get a place at a local medical school, and that even if she does you won't be able to offer large amounts of childcare, but people making untrue statements doesn't help anyone.

Two science subjects including the mandatory Chemistry

Chemistry isn't mandatory. Many medical schools don't require it.

I started a Medical degree with a young child 30 years ago. It was incredibly tough. I now work in a senior role in Higher Ed and I can see that despite the decades of development it’s still tough for any non- traditional entrants. However there are some medical schools that have absolutely embraced the objective to maximise opportunities for students with circumstances such as your sisters. They have multiple bursaries and support packages that could support your sister to succeed.
family support is never a guarantee and progressive medical schools recognise and support this.
she may want to consider Post grad training or the soon to be rolled out Doctor apprenticeship programmes.

She's got Chemisty and Biology A levels- two science subjects there

Chemistry is the one you cannot get into medical school without...never mind if you've got maths, further maths, physics etc...

It’s your sister’s decision and that’s brilliant but if you do not want to provide childcare (totally understandable) then it’s your sister’s responsibility no one else’s.
Everyone’s circumstances are different and we shouldn’t be judging you OP, you’ve said you can’t do it and that should be good enough. I’d stand firm.

Most medical courses at universities would be looking for maths and/or physics instead.

No UK medical school requires A-Level physics or maths. Not one.

https://www.medschools.ac.uk/media/3060/uk-medical-school-entry-requirements-2024-entry.pdf

Why are so many people on Mumsnet so driven to make untrue statements on topics they know nothing about?

There are plenty of medical students with A-Level English.

I know someone who trained as a nurse with kids

Chemistry is the one you cannot get into medical school without...never mind if you've got maths, further maths, physics etc...

This is also untrue.

I would do it. Are you both single parents? You could combine households and in time you get back into midwifery too.