Voting to 'Get the Tories Out'

[DewHopper]

Pro Labour posters are all over this platform telling posters to vote for whoever gets the Tories out. It does not seem to matter who it is as long as voting for them gets the Tories out nationally.

It's a worrying voting strategy from my pov but I tend to vote at constituency level. If I had an excellent Tory MP who cared about the things I cared about and served their constituents well, I would vote for them. Similarly Labour ( I would absolutely vote for Rosie Duffield) or Independent.

Do those people who will just vote for anyone as longs as this will oust the Tories - and what could be a very good MP - ever consider the effects of this locally? They may have got the Tories out at a national level but saddled themselves with a useless MP who does nothing for the locality.

Take for example women's rights. I am a gender critical woman and care very deeply about the erosion of women's single sex spaces etc. I am sure that many of the 'Tories out at all costs' people feel the same. The pro Labour people keep telling us that Starmer will be better for women's rights BUT if you vote on a single issue - getting the Tories out - you may well elect a hopeless constituency MP who is TWAW and who will be standing up to every pro woman move that Starmer makes. I worry that there will be a lot of these in the next parliament.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

I haven't seen the Conservative party manifesto yet, at least not one since 2019, but I might have missed it. Based on their track record....I don't even think that needs stating again. I could not be more unhappy with the state of the country.

I like what Labour are pledging to do. Green policy, saving the NHS, a crack down on crime, and providing opportunities for the less-advantaged. If they can help people buy their first homes, and provide more of them, that will be really great too.
I don't love everything about them, but I do support these things that they stand for. These things are a priority for me.

In the areas where a Labour vote is wasted because as a Tory area they have no hope of getting in, I feel uncertain of what to do. I don't feel good about tactical voting personally. But I might do it if I think it stands a chance at pushing the Tory candidate out, i.e. an independent or Lib Dem.

Policies around skills based training would be really good, I'm surprised nobody really picks this up when taking about the emerging green technologies that will be crying out for this. We are a country bereft of skilled labour.

Why on earth are you reporting posters to MNHQ? What did she say that was so terribly offensive?

Agree with this so much. I used to teach and we have this side of education so wrong in this country. Skills based vocational training can be bloody brilliant and we need much more of it.
I really like degree apprenticeships too although the competition for these is fierce as there are not enough of them.

Labour have pledged to do this:

• Introduce a broader curriculum, developing creativity, digital and speaking skills that ensure young people leave school ready for work and ready for life.
• Expand apprenticeships and skills training to spread opportunity for all.

Whether any political party actually follows through with everything, and how they do it, is always a gamble. I support them for their overall stance towards the disadvantaged though; it's far better than the Tory stance.

I really want them to overhaul the benefits system like they did last time they were in power, and to reverse what the Tories have done. That is something important to me. If the Lib Dems were to come up with a better proposal for that, I might be swayed. But then we are back to the original point about tactical voting; Labour are the only party with a chance at winning against the Tories.

We have a separate thread for that, thanks.

The OP's question is:

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

Should we only be posting if we agree with OP?

No please do post.

My response on why I prefer not to engage is below.

But please do post to each other as you wish.

There isn’t going to be a referendum over the GRA or any other gender issue. There wasn’t one over introducing the original act, giving women the vote or gay marriage either.

Frankly either side of this debate is playing a hand that lasts way beyond a GE and needs cross party support and debate at various levels.

Let’s be honest, most enmeshed in this debate aren’t looking for ‘a political response’ they’re after a specific answer and nothing else will do. Centrists aren’t welcome. People enquiring how communities are meant to work in the real world if demands are met aren’t welcome. People wondering what people who identify as trans are meant to do aren’t welcome. Just a whole load of not entertaining anyone who brings up anything outside of utter support.

all of which makes the discussion any thing but. It’s just not. There’s no room for anything other than signing up to be an evidence gatherer or sideline cheerleader for the echo chamber. This absolutely does happen on other politically led threads but without the variety of subjects to find common ground or find absolute dealbreakers any semblance of discussion quickly descends into this.

I don’t expect a response anything other than further cementing your position tbh.

I like the fact Labour are going to focus on violence against women and girls, and treat violent men who repeatedly abuse women as serious criminals. The fact rape is effectively decriminalised in this country is one of my biggest priorities for the government to fix. And the fact so many abusers get away with escalating abuse/stalking until they murder their victim. It needs to be stopped.

I like the fact Labour are thinking seriously about how to stop schools using charitable status to avoid paying tax. Hopefully that will raise some money to reinvest into state schools.

I like the fact Labour are planning to sort out the childcare mess so that people have a much better chance to access childcare. Did you know in teesside there are only 12 nursery places per 100 children? That's the kind of thing that keeps so many women trapped in poverty.

I hope they do something to support teachers and SEN provision in schools. Teachers are having a shocking time and last year only 25% of the required number were recruited. It needs sorting out.

Conversely I have no idea what the Conservatives are intending beyond cutting inheritance tax and sending a tiny number of people to Rwanda. Oh, and trying to get us out of complying with human rights legislation. None of which are a priority for me at all.

Brilliant post cornet 💯 agree

Why does it need to be a referendum? And it doesn’t have to be the GRA either.

As for your last line you will keep your opinion too but others will differ.

Many women are speaking up including sportswomen and court cases so there’s a fair bit of movement.

@Cornettoninja very well said. You absolutely nailed it.

tbh posters would be better off reporting to MNHQ if they think they’re been ganged up on or being ‘bossed about’ rather than filling up the a thread with accusations which prompts other posters to defend themselves.

I don’t go in for reporting much myself but I also tend not to chuck about accusations without expecting a response.

There's no central position between flat earthers and the truth.

There’s obviously a wide range of opinion and women will speak up for it or not.

It’s not just on mn but many well known women lobbying for change.

And yet the top 4 countries in the world for women's parity with men all have policies of gender self-ID and according to you 'Don't know what a woman is?

https://www.weforum.org/publications/global-gender-gap-report-2023/

Can you explain why these top 4 countries in the world to be a woman have risen to the top and are putting the UK to shame and have managed to do this alongside their policies of self-ID?

Why does it need to be a referendum? And it doesn’t have to be the GRA either

You would expect a whole party to campaign on the strength of one issue? I don’t think that’s likely either but that’s the only way there can be a true vote on gender issues.

Hmmm maybe not, but there are central positions between twaw/tmam and self identity is a fairytale.

That is good. There need to be people speaking up. I believe it is important for all sides to have a voice and a discussion.

I don't believe in keeping opinions. I may well always hold onto certain opinions that I feel strongly about (my dislike of the Tory party for example). But I do hope that I am willing to discuss opposing views and consider those as well. In doing so, there are quite a few things in the past that I have changed my mind about. Other opinions not so, but I'm glad I considered the opposing point of view.

What I hope for our country is more middle ground. Firmly held opinions without discussion on middle ground just leads to polarisation and conflict and nothing gets resolved. I'm seeing it on both sides of the gender/trans debate.

I also care passionately about other things. And I care about women's rights in a whole arena of various issues as well.

Exactly.

I’d like it as a policy decision at a GE, not GRA particularly but EqA definition

We’ll see if the many women speaking up will have impact at some point. Either way I’m glad they are, some to great cost.

Gender is a cultural device that coerces the sexes into their sexed roles and stereotypes. I don't want sex mixed up with narrative and elevated within the laws of this country and the policies that follow. It is harmful to women and girls to play this game. It fails us terribly.

What would that be in practise?

Excellent point.

My understanding is these things get voted on my the whole of parliament, irrespective of who is in power. Every MP gets a vote. (Please correct me if I'm wrong though?). If that is the case, I could understand why voting for your local MP and what they personally stand for is important to some, especially if they care most about one issue.

At the same time it really makes a debate on the general election in relation to gender issues rather irrelevant. Is it not the case that every MP has a vote where new laws are passed? I don't know if that's true, so if not, please educate me!

Yes, he’s likely to lose thankfully. The Labour candidate isn’t great, but she’s present, whereas PD and his scary wife Esther (Minister for Commen Sense) spend their time in her constituency or in London.