Voting to 'Get the Tories Out'

[DewHopper]

Pro Labour posters are all over this platform telling posters to vote for whoever gets the Tories out. It does not seem to matter who it is as long as voting for them gets the Tories out nationally.

It's a worrying voting strategy from my pov but I tend to vote at constituency level. If I had an excellent Tory MP who cared about the things I cared about and served their constituents well, I would vote for them. Similarly Labour ( I would absolutely vote for Rosie Duffield) or Independent.

Do those people who will just vote for anyone as longs as this will oust the Tories - and what could be a very good MP - ever consider the effects of this locally? They may have got the Tories out at a national level but saddled themselves with a useless MP who does nothing for the locality.

Take for example women's rights. I am a gender critical woman and care very deeply about the erosion of women's single sex spaces etc. I am sure that many of the 'Tories out at all costs' people feel the same. The pro Labour people keep telling us that Starmer will be better for women's rights BUT if you vote on a single issue - getting the Tories out - you may well elect a hopeless constituency MP who is TWAW and who will be standing up to every pro woman move that Starmer makes. I worry that there will be a lot of these in the next parliament.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

Seemingly, protecting single sex spaces ( toilets) and well, that's about it.

No it’s more than ‘toilets’

You do have to read up a bit though beyond I presume pro Labour threads

But the point is it shouldn’t matter what gender or sex someone biologically is or identifies as. It has nothing to do with their moral compass and ethics.

People in public life don’t have to be a certain way as long as it’s not brought into law in a way that further embeds gender ideology then fine for me

However some aggression shown by politicians such as Drakeford, Osborne, Lammy and Butler against ‘terfs’ or worse is concerning. It’s a kind of aggression that is one step away from threats of violence or NZ actual violence

If women can’t question or talk about sex based rights then yes I’d be very concerned for dd too as she gets older

To go to the religious analogy I believe Sunak and Yousaf hold their own religious views, no problem at all diversity is a positive

Where I would struggle if it were to be mandated we speak a certain way, never be an atheist unable to deny religion, or concede certain falsities which impinge on rights

I would not be happy to be represented by someone mired in a misogynist, homophobic cult which is what genderism is. You can't be non binary if you don't believe in gender identity and I think that this is harmful.

Find me a non binary person who believes that sex is more important than gender identity and I shall eat my words. And anyone who believes that gender identity trumps sex is bad for women and girls.

Also, everyone in the world is non binary unless they are literally an action an or a barbie doll. It is utter nonsense!

Where I would struggle if it were to be mandated we speak a certain way, never be an atheist unable to deny religion, or concede certain falsities which impinge on rights

Good point. This is where we already are though - speak up about genderism as a woman and in roll the rape and death threats. The police already log people for 'non crime hate incidents' (wrong think)...it's all there.

Fair enough @DewHopper I’d look at views which are usually easily found

On the pp claim it’s ‘toilets’ and not all encompassing issues such as free or compelled speech should they read up on Maya Forstater court case

It’s important women can say the equivalent to ‘I don’t believe in god’ and not lose their career or expect hatred or violence

It’s important women can say the equivalent to ‘I don’t believe in god’ and not lose their career or expect hatred or violence

Absolutely.

It’s important women can say the equivalent to ‘I don’t believe in god’ and not lose their career or expect hatred or violence

well then the opposite has to be true and it’s important that transsexuals can say the equivalent of ‘I believe in god’ and have the same protections as any other belief system.

It can’t be all one way.

But it's more like knowing that the earth isn't flat and being forced to say that it is.

I don’t think that’s incompatible but no one can compel it for another person.

However then you have to work out who enters where because a woman might not consent to sharing spaces or sports with males

What is interesting about a political post on MN is that rather than debate a whole host of issues, it turns into an argument about the gender debate again.
Women are so incensed on here about men identifying as women and encroaching on their rights, yet they don't really care about anyone else.

It's the indignation of the privileged.

I don’t disagree but that can’t be worked out in an environment where one side can’t even bring themselves to acknowledge the other sides sincerely held belief can it?

There is no ‘compromise’ solution

Males either have access or they don’t

But no women don’t have to bend language or beliefs by law, thankfully due to Forstater

That GC belief is as sincerely held as any if that’s the criteria. You may be more aligned to one but others won’t be and importantly it’s protected

@Firefly2009 we get it you disapprove 🙄 Both ‘sides’ are engaging so clearly there’s an interest. It’s clear the op has an interest it’s in the first post

Neither to plenty of non-binary people.

Sorry but we have the evidence of 13 years of Tory cuts in this vital service.

Jess Phillips has done superb work on this matter, working across party too BUT still the cuts come, the Tories she has worked with have no influence.

Today Sunak has announced further tax cut aims, funded by benefit cuts and cuts to public services.

Now who do you think these cuts will affect the most?

Are they better funded in Wales?

I think its more a calculated approach to stop women discussing other aspects of Conservative policy/impacts and to try to discourage votes for Labour. I try to see it as a compliment to how influential the forum must be.

It's not that I actually see it that way. I was simply making the point that IF you wanted to consider anyone who has a conception of how things are in one particular field that seems irrational as so "divorced from reality" that they couldn't be trusted to govern competently, there would be far more egregious examples to start with than gender identity - some, like major religions, widely tolerated and taken for granted as acceptable. You could describe Christianity in such reductionist terms without being strictly wrong, if you wanted to stir up the kind of one-sided hate against it that some people here like stirring up against trans people.

Personally, some of my best friends are religious. 😀

@EasternStandard I don’t disapprove of having the gender debate and you’ve ignored my point.

Here we go 😬

Yes it’s irrelevant to women I hear you. I don’t care if you feel that though.

I am glad women do speak up thank fuck. JKR, Sharron Davies, Maya Forstater

Bloody brilliant and I’m grateful

Yes, fuck knows where we would be were it not for brave heretical women prepared to speak out and the army of supporters, sticking their hands in their pockets and mobilizing to stand firm against women hating nonsense. Canada, I expect.

Only thing the Tories care about is votes and power and they'll do anything to get them. The tide has turned with the public over the whole Trans nonsense, it's now only a fringe issue among the loony left.

All this has happened on the Tory watch but they will go with the public if that's the way the wind is blowing. You can't blame women for being terrified of Labour.

If we left it to some on here it would be don’t mention it precious Labour might get upset

https://www.bigissue.com/news/social-justice/uk-poverty-the-facts-figures-effects-solutions-cost-living-crisis/

And the Tories want to cut more benefits

Tactical voting to GTTO doesn't necessarily mean a Labour win. Other parties will benefit too as will the constituents living with a dismal Tory MP.

The stench of Tory desperation grows ever more pungent. Their fear is real.