Do you believe everyone is slightly autistic?

[Unfriendlywoes]

Constantly have people saying this to me, usually when I’m trying to open up about my struggles with my ASD dd. I feel like a complete failure as a parent quite a lot, and feel so utterly broken and angry after fighting and begging for support for so long and still not getting any really. Currently draining all of my finances to access private therapies for her. If it’s a case of everyone is slightly autistic, why is it so fucking hard?

Yes that is what I said in regards to aspergers, pdd and autism. As I stated autism is an umbrella diagnosis. Rett's is usually dx as autism too as it *usually presents as autism before the genetic test takes place ie people recieve the autism dx first. It was previously included under the autism dx but after genetic testing you can now ask for the dx to be changed (many people don't/ too much hastle). Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me when I stated autism is an umbrella dx?

There are many people now also receiving genetic results where their autism presentation is put down to their genetic mutation. Hopefully this will become more common and more understanding will follow rather than multiple conditions being given the same dx, dx will be able to be able to be made on physical evidence. It'll also parents screen for conditions.

Tell me what neurotypical is? It's like NT has a very clear definition but neurodivergence doesn't.

Traits don't equal dx, but they shouldn't be dismissed either.

Define NT to me.

You said Asperger's, pdd and rett were all under the umbrella of autism, I was pointing out rett isn't. Twice. First you tried to tell me I agreed with you, now that you'd said something different.

I don't believe autism is an umbrella diagnosis, that is an outdated concept, I believe that many thing were mistaken for individual conditions which were one. But also that under the umbrella diagnosis theory many genetic conditions, like rett, were misdiagnosed.

The more we learn the better we can diagnose but we must go forward, not back.

Of course ND is clearly defined by the diagnostic criteria used to diagnose the relevant ND condition. (Of which there are a number)

What do you mean define Neurotypical? It's not being Neurodiverse. Not having a diagnosis of a condition under the ND umbrella.

Would you ask people to define someone without any other health diagnosis?

@HellsToilet I agree with the umbrella dx being outdated but unfortunately that's what is still being used. I also agree that many different conditions have been lumped together and hope that with time and more research there will be more clearer diagnoses.

I said that once, when you asked what was diagnosed as autism which was separate. I also have mentioned about the genetic conditions a couple of times.

It felt like you were looking for an argument for the sake of it. First because I'd wrote that many conditions were being diagnosed as autism - you asked what conditions (which is confusing because you say you agree with this?). Then it was like you'd gone away googled and found out rett has a separate dx after genetic testing (in reality many many people keep the autism dx and some don't have the genetic test at all). Now you're saying the umbrella dx is outdated- yes it is but that is what is in use.

Just to be clear, you have no idea if these people are Autistic or not, and you definitely have no idea whether they struggle to function. I’m married, have a job and to the outside world appear to function like an average person. I am autistic, and at home am exhausted, have given up on cooking which my DH now does as I get overwhelmed by it. We have a cleaner because I struggle to motivate myself to do it because I’m exhausted from masking all the time. I cry often with confusion and frustration at masking and coping with social communication all the time in my professional job. You would have no idea though, because autistic people are maskers and many hide it.

No I don’t know any more about my friends and colleagues than what they choose to share about themselves combined with what I can observe.

They may be undiagnosed. They may be diagnosed and not choose to share. They may not talk honestly about their home life when we chat in the pub.

That goes for absolutely anyone you could ever meet but at some point you need to use your own judgement otherwise we would just have to assume every single person is neurodiverse and struggling to cope and that doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.

Correct @Elfon you cannot assume. You also cannot assume people are not struggling to function…

No, I never asked you what conditions and I never agreed with you. My first interaction with you was to correct you about Rett syndrome NOT being under ASD anymore, at which point you said you agreed with me that Rett WAS an ASD. So I corrected you again, you then explained why Rett WASN'T an ASD.

I'm not sure who you are arguing with and why, but it was only me some of the time!

You also can’t assume anyone is neurotypical. Neurotypical is just as much a collection of stereotypes as neurodiverse.

So the logical conclusion is that we really need to get away from talking about NT and ND because actually, we don’t know who is NT and who is ND and what difficulties they have in life, however they may present in public and whatever their self perception may be. The labels are really completely meaningless.

You specifically said your colleagues do not have struggles functioning, but you do NOT know that. The “labels” are not meaningless, only to people like you who assume you can tell who is struggling to function. You are only proving your own point really.

@Elfon That goes for absolutely anyone you could ever meet but at some point you need to use your own judgement otherwise we would just have to assume every single person is neurodiverse and struggling to cope and that doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.

Tosh. At no point whatsoever do you need to judge other people. I mean that is quite literally prejudice.

I would suggest you take your own advice and get away from talking about ND.

What may appear to be a label to you could be a diagnosis with life changing benefits for someone else.

Well let’s turn it the other way round and talk about NT people. We can’t assume anyone is NT just because they appear to have the stereotypical presentation of an NT person. So you should never attempt to explain anybody’s behaviour in terms of being NT unless you know for sure that a person has been through a diagnostic process and had a result confirming they are NT.

To me this makes very little sense.

@HellsToilet my apologies I've just gone back through and I have confused you with another poster.

@Elfon to be fair none of what you write makes any sense.

I guess I’m trying to understand why it makes sense to label everyone as either autistic or not, with no grey area in between. You are definitely either NT or ND.

I’ve been told it’s impossible for me to tell who is in which category unless they have gone through a diagnostic process and chosen to share their results with me. Given that only a small number of people will ever do this I don’t see how the labels of NT or ND can be useful or even valid. The vast majority of people will never know which category they are in.

Possible indicators such as behaviour and personality are simply stereotypes that can’t tell us anything meaningful.

Compare it to a more physical illness then, everyone in the world is asthmatic or not asthmatic - with some people it's pretty obvious, eg because they've been having asthma attacks since a very young age, other people may need to be tested first.

There are likely to be many people who don't have the greatest lung function so may sometimes feel similar symptoms but it doesn't affect their life enough to even get tested let alone have the diagnosis. There may be other people who could get the diagnosis if they were tested but are so close to the 'mild symptoms' border that they never get tested or only get diagnosed later in life if something changes and their symptoms affect them more. It doesn't mean the labels of "yes, I have asthma" or "no, I'm not asthmatic" are useless though.

@Elfon I don't understand why you insist on labels? It's not about pigeon holeing, a diagnosis allows people to access targeted support and to understand how best to live their lives.

Why do YOU want to categorise other people? It's of no benefit to you or them.

It's not a label. It's a diagnosis. Or is asthma, cancer, etc a "label" too?

What targeted support? It's non existent

Once again you prove the point that you shouldn’t be making any judgements or assumptions about anyone. However, you seem to think this does not apply when concerning people you deem to be “normal” or as you say neurotypical. It doesn’t actually matter whether the person is NT or ND, you shouldn’t assume you know how they function.

I’d even go so far as to suggest this indicate you think there is a criteria for how autistic or adhd someone should be and present to the outside world before you view their diagnosis as valid? Because it is a diagnosis, NOT a label. People don’t have labels, they are not items of clothing. The “stereotyped” behaviours are also not stereotypes, but symptoms for ND people, and personality traits for NT people.

I think we're in vehement agreement - I would suggest you rtft but......😉

Piss off with that shite.

You’re a year and a half late🤣🤣

There was a scam post that bumped this thread. I was replying to that. It was about some herbal bollocks.

Wtf mumsnet? You normally leave the post but say deleted for breaking talk guidelines but youve removed the whole thing and now I look like a tit 🤣🤣

Oh dear😬🤣 Sounds like whoever it was did indeed need to piss off!