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Original poster

Thread 34 Sunak - the Circus is back in Westminster

997 replies

DuncinToffee · 12/12/2023 13:36

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4947437-thread-33-sunak-sense-and-sunakability?page=40&reply=131395455

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
Notonthestairs · 13/12/2023 08:14

jgw - how else to show leadership than by abstaining on a bill you've publically opposed?

AdamRyan · 13/12/2023 08:18

Notonthestairs · 13/12/2023 08:14

jgw - how else to show leadership than by abstaining on a bill you've publically opposed?

Its flipping ridiculous.
Anyway should take up plenty of column inches until May.

Zonder · 13/12/2023 08:19

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/12/2023 07:37

Slight correction, they are all ex-Tory MPs.

And to add even more detail, they are all DISGRACED ex-Tory MPs. Savoury bunch.

Original poster
DuncinToffee · 13/12/2023 08:44

Economy shrunk by 0.3% in October

OP posts:
Zonder · 13/12/2023 08:48

DuncinToffee · 13/12/2023 08:44

Economy shrunk by 0.3% in October

Pledges doing well. Or did that one get ditched when the new pledges came out?

InMySpareTime · 13/12/2023 08:54

Can't they just declare that the economy grew and somehow override reality? I thought that's what happens now.

Original poster
DuncinToffee · 13/12/2023 08:55

Summary of Sunak's Covid Inquiry appearance

https://x.com/resophonick/status/1734844819158008297?s=20

OP posts:
Original poster
DuncinToffee · 13/12/2023 08:56

Zonder · 13/12/2023 08:48

Pledges doing well. Or did that one get ditched when the new pledges came out?

Show quote history

He can't recall making that pledge

OP posts:
Zonder · 13/12/2023 08:56

They could just pass a law to say that even if the economy looks like it shrunk it actually grew.

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/12/2023 09:53

The man that killed himself on the BibbyStockholm was allegedly Michael Essouma a doctor from the Cameroon. His career doesn’t make it any more tragic than if he was unskilled but it’s potentially going to be another headache for Rishi.

Much more difficult to dehumanise someone with a name and opens a lot of questions about why there was no safe route for someone highly skilled escaping from a war torn country whose skills we desperately need. And that’s on top of the questions about how we’ve made conditions so bad for asylum seekers that we are breaking their mental health even if it wasn’t broken before.

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/12/2023 10:01

I mean, the very least we should expect is that people are treated like people and not animals. Everyone. It should be a basic minimum of what we should do. There is something quite seriously wrong with the morals of the people we have running the country and advocating policies like this.

And I include anyone who votes to agree with any bill advocating this because party unity was more important than any qualms they might have about the morality.

BIossomtoes · 13/12/2023 10:02

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/12/2023 09:53

The man that killed himself on the BibbyStockholm was allegedly Michael Essouma a doctor from the Cameroon. His career doesn’t make it any more tragic than if he was unskilled but it’s potentially going to be another headache for Rishi.

Much more difficult to dehumanise someone with a name and opens a lot of questions about why there was no safe route for someone highly skilled escaping from a war torn country whose skills we desperately need. And that’s on top of the questions about how we’ve made conditions so bad for asylum seekers that we are breaking their mental health even if it wasn’t broken before.

That’s dreadful. The fact that he was a doctor doesn’t make it any more tragic but it makes the optics far worse. It raises the question of why we’re so slow to process asylum seekers and how it’s possible that someone whose skills are so urgently needed in our society can just be left to rot. I really can’t believe we’ve found ourselves here, the cost to all of us of Tory ideology on immigration and austerity is immeasurable. The contrast between what they inherited in 2010 and the legacy they’ve leaving couldn’t be starker.

Janiie · 13/12/2023 10:03

'And that’s on top of the questions about how we’ve made conditions so bad for asylum seekers that we are breaking their mental health even if it wasn’t broken before.'

Bad? They are all housed and fed, rightly so. I'd guess treated far better than the war torn countries some are fleeing. They are treated far better than our own homeless people are. No doubt whataboutery and I'm sorry for the man who took his own life yesterday but you do know suicide is the biggesr killer of men under 40 in the UK? Sympathies for this poor man and his family but let's have some perspective.

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/12/2023 10:15

Having lost one of my closes friend to suicide earlier this year and having supported lots of groups that focus on suicide prevention I’m well aware of that.

You will notice my second post says ‘everyone’. I mean everyone. There isn’t really any competition between different groups our government treat as subhuman.

Zonder · 13/12/2023 10:22

Well what a good thing we don't need more doctors huh?

Janiie · 13/12/2023 10:23

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/12/2023 10:15

Having lost one of my closes friend to suicide earlier this year and having supported lots of groups that focus on suicide prevention I’m well aware of that.

You will notice my second post says ‘everyone’. I mean everyone. There isn’t really any competition between different groups our government treat as subhuman.

No there shouldn't be any competition or blame you're right. I'm sorry you have lost a friend and good that you supported others Flowers, you more than most will know immediate circumstances aren't usually of any relevance. Mental health problems are far more complex than that.

Janiie · 13/12/2023 10:23

Zonder · 13/12/2023 10:22

Well what a good thing we don't need more doctors huh?

What?

pointythings · 13/12/2023 10:28

The point here, @Janiie , is that if we allowed asylum seekers to work (and pay tax!), we wouldn't have to put them on shitty barges with dreadful living conditions, and they would be less likely to commit suicide. We need workers. Instead we choose the worst of all options to appeal to xenophobic frothing wingnuts.

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/12/2023 10:32

Which is why I didn’t specifically blame the government for his suicide Janiie. It’ll be far more complex than that. But the conditions people are kept in on that boat will lead to mental health and other issues and was one of the things charities were warning about at the start.

Janiie · 13/12/2023 10:33

pointythings · 13/12/2023 10:28

The point here, @Janiie , is that if we allowed asylum seekers to work (and pay tax!), we wouldn't have to put them on shitty barges with dreadful living conditions, and they would be less likely to commit suicide. We need workers. Instead we choose the worst of all options to appeal to xenophobic frothing wingnuts.

People do not take their own lives because they have been housed, fed and are in a safe country. They sadly take their own lives because they have mental health problems. Please don't oversimplify.

Some of you need to read up about the tragedy of suicide and how of course many people try to blame others or find a 'reason', but usually it is because the person has complex mental health issues.

Zonder · 13/12/2023 10:37

Janiie · 13/12/2023 10:03

'And that’s on top of the questions about how we’ve made conditions so bad for asylum seekers that we are breaking their mental health even if it wasn’t broken before.'

Bad? They are all housed and fed, rightly so. I'd guess treated far better than the war torn countries some are fleeing. They are treated far better than our own homeless people are. No doubt whataboutery and I'm sorry for the man who took his own life yesterday but you do know suicide is the biggesr killer of men under 40 in the UK? Sympathies for this poor man and his family but let's have some perspective.

You'd be happy with what he had, would you? How dare he be suicidal when he has a bed and a bit of food on an old ship.

Zonder · 13/12/2023 10:38

Janiie · 13/12/2023 10:23

What?

Show quote history

A doctor - don't we have shortages of doctors? Isn't he the type of person this government should be interested in giving a visa to, in their choice of who deserves entry?

Notonthestairs · 13/12/2023 10:40

"They are all housed and fed, rightly so. I'd guess treated far better than the war torn countries some are fleeing."

What a very low bar you are holding there Janii.

pointythings · 13/12/2023 10:42

@Janiie I don't know why I am surprised at your unwillingness to acknowledge that the way the UK treats its asylum seekers is a strong contributing factor to their deterioration in terms of mental health. Of course that man had mental health problems. Of course being put on that barge had nothing to do with his suicide. Keep telling yourself that. I see you.

Efacsen · 13/12/2023 10:48

@Janiie

Approximately 30% of people who kill themselves have no discernible mental health problems on psychological post mortem

Robert Maxwell is a very good example - insoluble debt/loss of face is a common precipitant