“We fail students by indulging their fragilities” - Libby Purves in the Times

[CruCru]

I read this thing by Libby Purves in the Times: [[We fail students by indulging their fragilities

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5dbf29f2-857e-41ce-8c78-028a513ab8f9?shareToken=c41320dec7bfb802e039b5c8bc3b513f

I found it very interesting. “Whatever the failings of postwar stiffness - it had plenty - at least that generation was more prepared than most modern children for the shocking fact that once education’s over, the wide world really doesn’t care about your feelings. Rules and systems should prevent bullying, but preserving your comfort zone is of interest only to parents and faithful friends. As far as everyone else is concerned, it’s up to you to be useful.”

I remember at work being taken aback at how much harder work some of the new graduates were than when I started. I wonder, though, if part of that was that they’d had to do so much more to get the job. My A levels were respectable but my old university wouldn’t give me a place these days. So much is expected of young people.

I agree with her. I think we are heading for a generation completely unable to handle the same challenges that folks did 20-30 years ago. We treat normal anxiety about things like it’s a medical condition making people less and less resilient.

She's absolutely right. Employers don't care about disabilities and they pretty much pay lip service to all this 'wellness' and work/life balance stuff. We're doing young people no favours by cosseting them.

She also said that special learning difficulties diagnoses are twice as high in richer areas than poor ones. I was surprised at this - not because middle class parents are good at getting help for their children but because I’d expect schools to notice when children are struggling (even in poor areas). Am I being naive?

There's a big difference between having a genuine disability and just being fragile and lacking in resilience.

I think the middle and upper classes have an easier path to getting a diagnosis, due to the ability go private.
On my local community Facebook group this morning someone was asking about how to get an appointment for a diagnosis for this child - people popped up that they had been waiting for 4 years for an appointment for their child, others saying they've been told that the wait list is 6 years long. The overriding suggestion was to go private if you could afford it.

It’s a 2 year wait for an ASD assessment in our area. Other areas it’s longer and that’s if you’re accepted. Or you can pay 3.5k for a private assessment. Assessment doesn’t guarantee diagnosis but paying does guarantee an assessment which may other wise be refused.

Ugh, that piece makes my blood boil.

My Dd has ADHD and ASd. I’m MC. She was only diagnosed when she refused to go to school. She managed to mask it for 17 years. This is common for girls.

l was a secondary teacher. The kids with extra time have to be assessed for it. They don’t all get private rooms, those with sensory issues do. Those with anxiety do. We’re just better at diagnosing.

As for the ignorant comment about ‘discos’ 🤬My Dd has severe sensory processing issues particularly around hearing. She can go to a concert because she chooses to do it. She can’t cope with being forced into an environment where doors scrape, or there’s constant background noise.

Maybe we need to move to a world where these things are accommodated. And Gen Z have the potential to change the world of work from the disablist harsh environment it is now. Good for them.

What an ignorant thick piece of writing. I know she’s a famous journalist, but there’s fuck all research in that.

Yes, lots of nd present as quiet and shy. Particularly girls. It’s only in the last few years this is being recognised.

In my area they just don't diagnose dyslexia any more, just no assessment in the state system unless part of ASD or something else. Only private testing available. If you are an ordinary child with dyslexia you just have to muddle along believing you are stupid and get crap grades, because you won't get the help or exam arrangements. Nothing fragile about simply withdrawing those services.

Yes, lots of and present as quiet and shy. Particularly girls. It’s only in the last few years this is being recognised

I think we are also in danger though, that any diversion from the supposed "norm", anxiety, shyness, social awkwardness, can lead parents to assume an ND, when these can also just be a personality or life experiences. I know, DD is like that, but she isn't ND.

I haven’t read the article because of the paywall. I remember reading that Libby Purves’s son killed himself when he was 23. Sometimes it’s really serious and not just about being more “resilient”.

What a lot of nonsense...

It is better for everyone that mental health issues and disabilities in general are better recognised and supported these days whether at school or in the workplace.

Where I live it takes 3 to 5 years to get a diagnosis for autism on the NHS which is an absolute scandal.

@MaidOfSteel
'She's absolutely right. Employers don't care about disabilities and they pretty much pay lip service to all this 'wellness' and work/life balance stuff. We're doing young people no favours by cosseting them.'

And the problem is with the employers. That's why we have laws to protect people with disabilities and employer who 'don't care about disabilities' end up in front of tribunals...

Reading some of these comments it is sad to realise that most people are stuck in the 1950s, including the Times.

This is why they have assessments! Mine won’t speak to a teacher ( mutism)staff just though she was quiet and shy.

This IS how ND girls present, which is why so many are not diagnosed.

While I do agree with some of her individual points, I thought overall it showed absolute contempt for young people, who as a generation have it pretty hard in many ways. I would have thought that given her own family's difficulties that she might have been a bit more sympathetic towards today's young adults.

Roll on Gen Z💪💪💪

Its about time the ridiculous pompous harsh disablist competitive work environment was addressed. They are in short supply so will be able to dictate to arsehole bosses. This is what we need. A revolution in the workplace.

Yes, you are being naive. Schools can only do so much and it's much easier for middle class parents to deal with "the system". Even 20 years ago it was made very clear to me by DC's school that my support and effort would make a huge difference to the school's ability get the right help for DC - not by buying private services but by attending meetings, filling in and signing forms, taking DC to appointments, finding out what to ask for and who to ask. The assessments that lead to diagnoses are limited and rationed and if parents can't be supportive and active a child can easily slide down the list.

I don't get the impression thigns have improved since.

I'm kind of half and half on this- my H does freelance work in a company with a lot of young people- the amount of pandering going on to young people that don't have a mental illness or a physical problem but are simply me, me' me and have absolutely no resilience if it comes to being any criticism at all is ridiculous (and no I'm not remotely right wing) however there are others with very genuine issues who really struggle to get help/medicated etc- my son was adult diagnosed at 20 as ADHD and although he's medicated and much better trying to see anyone subsequently to up his dose etc is simply not happening unless you pay private. My son also thinks the same by the way that many NT younger people are as useful as a chocolate teapot when it comes to having any stoicism

Exactly - you just have to look at the demographics of the country, if employers want workers, they will need to accommodate them. It's a jobseekers market and will become only more so as the years go on and the supply of younger workers dwindles.

Also teachers now teach too many pupils to really know who is struggling. When l was a secondary teacher l taught about 400 a week, mostly once a week. And they changed on a rotation every 12 weeks.

So with bag class sizes a lot were struggling. The majority really, but l didn’t teach them long enough to realise or recognise. And when you are doing a million other things to do with progress and behaviour the plates slip a bit, and kids just slip through the net.

I think your expectations of state education are very naive.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow could you explain how this works? My Dd has severe sensory processing issues particularly around hearing. She can go to a concert because she chooses to do it. She can’t cope with being forced into an environment where doors scrape, or there’s constant background noise ?
I understood that if noise was a processing issue it would always be. I’m a teacher and have worked with many ND students and that’s what I’ve observed - some will go to gigs but wearing ear defenders, none have been able to cope with noise just because they want to (I’m not getting at you or your DD incidentally - I’m well aware things work differently for different people. I’d just like to understand further).

She’s not wrong that there’s a cruel
awakening when they get into the world of work.

Let’s face it, much of adult life sucks. Work is boring or stressful or soul-sucking or just a relentless grind. Costs are high, you’re endlessly buying food, cooking food, clearing up after food, washing clothes, cleaning up, the only post you get as an adult are bills… it’s pretty crap.

I have some sympathy with her point of view but I think it's journalese rather than informed opinion. We grey haired ones tend to forget how unprepared we were at 16, 18 or 21 and only remember how fabulously prepared we are now. There are some very entertaining historical accounts going back to the Roman Empire with adults variously complaining that young people are soft nellies/unruly delinquents/too militaristic depending on the generation.

Re the middle class advantage it is definitely a thing. We fail our SEN kids horribly. It is harder for schools to initiate EHCPs because they are required to try a lot of alternative approaches first, most of which they don't have the resources for. Middle class parents are more likely to object and more likely to initiate the process themselves. As the parent of a SEN teenager both parenting them and negotiating the bureaucracy eat up my time but I'm a senior professional and more than capable of negotiating bureaucracies. Many people aren't and their children are simply failed by the system. It's heartbreaking.

That's because there isn't anywhere near enough Ed Psychs in the state sector, so accessing one is much easier for a parent who can afford to pay

I said on another thread only earlier today that 2 of the important things we need to teach our young people are resilience and flexibility, both I observe as lacking in many including one of my DD's and my dsd. Plus everything is a medical condition, trying to explain that it's absolutely normal to feel sad, at a loss and concerned following a death in the family was met with aghast, they seemed to think they needed pills to "fix it" no sadness sometimes just is sadness.

She's absolutely right. Employers don't care about disabilities

And that @MaidOfSteel is not and never will be acceptable.
Not when you have a government then expecting said disabled people to work no matter what.