If you're not voting Labour because of Palestine or gender nonsense ...

[CheesyJacketPotato]

Are you really ok with having another Tory government? Because in all honesty that is what you'll get.

I voted for Corbyn and I detest him, but the alternative was dire. Politics has always been about chosing the least worst choice, for me anyway. It shouldn't be that way but it is.
I'm GC, I'll vote Labour. I'll vote for immigrants, the disabled, people struggling with poverty, the NHS and education, I'll hope that gender ID implodes itself, I'm also very worried about Labours building policies. But there's no real other option.

Everyone who feels (like me) that the Labour Party is their natural home, but feels some disquiet about some of their policies, should maybe join, and try to change things from within! I haven’t, but maybe I should? I don’t know…

They’ll see higher numbers as validation for the policies you’re not keen on

I think if it's a case of helping our most vulnerable in society, you can't rely on the Tories to make their lives much better. Are people really worrying about a foreign war or gender issues or are they worrying about putting money in the meter and figuring out how much of the household budget should go on food? I think voters might vote with what's important. The Tories are not going to make working class lives better. Vote anyone but Tory, I say. Doesn't have to be Labour.

There’s nothing to be done, then? Surely it’s the membership who set the tone, by internal voting on various matters? (Don’t really know much about how political parties work ) If enough people with similar opinions join, surely it would eventually make a difference? Call me naive, I don’t mind!

The most effective way to make a political party change is to withdraw a vote or look like you will

Eg Labour reacting to SNP political pain for Sturgeon after Isla Bryson or losing one by-election

It makes them start to listen. A bigger membership would just validate their policies

If you look at the Labour policies you don’t like they soften when political challenge appears, and embolden when reinforced eg Drakeford’s insulting and misogynistic reply to female MP shortly after local elections

If you’re confident of this, why start this thread (like all the others) that seem to be set up purely to hector people to do so?

Surely if lots want change, you don’t need to do this?

Fwiw I think they’ll win.

I always vote Conservative so if Labour have messed up that is wonderful. I do not particularly support this socialist, high spending high tax "big state" Tory party but at least it is better than Labour. Labour last won an election in 2005 so almost 20 years ago and it would not be surprising if they won now or went into coalition with the Lib Dems but we shall see. I want every Tory voter to turn out and vote however, come what may. Don't waste your vote.

That would be my concern.

And a big part of why I will not vote for them with their current policies and attitudes. Because votes for Labour with nose held, despite the misogyny, antisemitism and other iniquities, will just be viewed by them as validation of their abhorrent current approach/policies.

The only hope we have of getting Labour back to being a party of equality for all is to NOT validate their ‘some are more equal and deserving than others’ bullshit.

That we risk another Tory term to do this makes me FURIOUS. Furious with Starmer and all the other ninnies and arseholes currently making policy.

Given that Labour has a 30 point lead over the Tories, I’m not sure why threads like this - scolding naughty ladies for not voting Labour like good girls - keep appearing

I agree. I grew up in Brighton where there has always been a massive “Never kissed a Tory” / “Tory scum”. I remember (a few years ago) Labour didn’t do as well as they had expected in a general election - so their supporters gave a bunch of interviews where they blamed the electorate for being selfish and not voting for them. This sort of thing ends up being a real turn off, even with floating voters.

I agree. But I wish Starmer had a bit more back bone. At the moment they are the best of a bad bunch, barely. It's so disappointing. But better than the conservative alternative.

I suspect most people will vote for the party that they believe will benefit them the most financially. They just won’t talk about it.

I appreciate your honesty.

I would add the VAT to private school to not vote for Labour. Clearly a hateful and divisive move which would only affected struggling middle class.

Ok so how about the current method of dealing with the immigration crisis. The Tory approach to dealing with the backlog (which they caused by taking us out of the EU) is to give refugees 7 days to leave their temporary accommodation after being granted asylum.

Which is generating huge amounts of homelessness - street homeless.

These are people who could be working and contributing. There are plenty of jobs in most sectors. But you can't get a job when you're homeless as you need an address.

This it Tory Britain. Tory incompetence.

The bit I don’t get is if some people now can’t afford private school where do the children go to school?

state schools are massively over subscribed and underfunded …what would labour do to mitigate this

i will be looking at the manifesto for labour and other parties before i vote obviously so maybe it will be explained in there

Well, yes. I don’t see how it benefits those of us who can’t afford to send our kids to state schools if there are feeer places available at the good state schools because of this. How does that help the less well-off kids?

It sounds like a policy rooted in ideology rather than practicality. Who’d have thought?

Nonsense. You can't possibly know that without a whole lot more information, and even then you can't know it with certainty because you're attempting to predict a future outcome.

As I said earlier in the thread, by far the most likely consequence of not voting Labour is that Labour will still win the election but with a smaller majority or even as the largest minority party needing a deal to govern. That to me is a far better outcome than a Labour landslide delivering huge unassailable power to a completely unprincipled Red Tory who opposes nearly all of what uis necessary to improve the country. I'm happy with that consequence of my action and it has nothing to do with choosing Tory, which I'm not doing.

Don't bother, it's a complete waste of time. The rank and file members of the Labour party have no real power. Everything is done by a cabal behind the scenes. There is a show of local selections, council representation etc, but the moment anything threatens to go against what the leadership has decided they just stomp on it, in complete disregard for their own stated rules if necessary.

This looked like improving for a while but has been doubled down with knobs on by Starmer.

You're naive. 😀

Contrary to popular myth, most Labour party members are reasonable people capable of engaging with a range of views and accepting democratic processes even when they don't go their own way. 62% of them voted for Keir Starmer as leader at the last leadership election (which means plenty of the same ones who voted for Corbyn before that must have done so). Since then Starmer has reversed almost everything he stood for the get the leadership, and used the party's disciplinary processes in a cynical and partisan internal war to expel anyone who disagrees with him, often on the most flimsy of pretences.

There is a set of processes laid out to govern how the party operates, members engage at various levels on that basis. And then when the leadership doesn't like it they just ignore them and do what they want.

Honestly, people talk about the far left being Stalinist, but it's the right of the Labour party who have adopted Stalinism on steroids. One of the less visible tragedies of the steady erosion of British democracy over the last decade or so is how the LP's role in representing the will of local communities via their membership has been completely abandoned.

If you don't vote Labour they have no way of knowing what you didn't unless you write to them. I'd far rather vote for them and write to my MP or whomever and explain my views.

I don't buy the rhetoric that 'they're all as bad as each other'. It's time to give Labour a chance but for membership to engage.

Membership have been attempting to engage for years.

@piscofrisco I think the way he’s dealing with the Middle Eastern conflict shows backbone. You might not agree with him but I think it displays decisiveness and not being swayed from his course. Tbh I think not having a back phone is like that nickname given to him by the Tory press during lock down - Captain Hindsight, (ironic as the government followed through a lot of what was suggested by the LP). It’s just a lazy insult that doesn’t mean anything.
@EasternStandard well you would tell people to withhold their vote for labour wouldn’t you. You’re a Tory supporter 😂

🙄 are you the one that follows me around making digs

I reckon. Typical Labour loyalist

The fact is if pp are not keen on current Labour policies giving them a majority or joining the party will validate them

They don’t listen to the many women speaking up now why would they after the GE?

Pp can vote for who they want but don’t be surprised if any change you want to see doesn’t happen after the GE

Basically whoever wants Labour as many seem to, whatever happens with gender stuff won’t be a surprise

They’ve let you know. Vote away, no one owes someone else their vote.

I don’t expect anyone to vote switch, as if anyone does that on the basis of mn posts.

But we’ll see how these threads go for pp who thought they could change Labour after they’re in. It’s the last thing they want people to talk about before, hence all the no one’s talking about it and take the public with you stuff

Actually, a potential coalition between Labour and the utterly, indisputably batshit LibDems might be the only thing that could convince me to vote for Labour.