Armistice day irrelevance to Pro-Palestine

[bohomoon]

'It's not a time for political demos': War heroes demand pro-Palestine protest on Armistice Day is cancelled - as Met chief Mark Rowley comes under pressure to ban marches amid fears they could spark clashes over Remembrance weekend | Daily Mail Online
So, we buy and wear poppies to remember those who died having fought in WW1. Armistice day was the ceasefire between the allies and Germany on the 11th of November at the 11th hour 1918. We can only ‘remember,’ because we were not there and hence the ‘Remembrance day.’ Yes, I do poppies and I wear them, although I wear the white one that is brooch as a pacifist. And yet the call for a ceasefire is not being heard, in a land faraway, close to the birthplace of Jesus Christ, home to the Abrahamic faith people are being slaughtered, a genocide, horror is very much present today. The idea is so hypocritical, beyond belief. To remember the dead, and not see this relevance today just makes me feel sick, especially when this country is utterly responsible for the chaos in Palestine and Israel.

“One of the groups planning a protest for Armistice Day is the same group which two years ago drove in convoy from Bradford to London and used loudspeakers to shout threatening anti-Semitic abuse from their windows. They drove through areas known to have Jewish communities, shouting 'Fuck their mothers! Rape their daughters!' Does that sound pro-Palestinian but anti-Hamas to you?”

WTF?! Which group is this @EsmaCannonball? I’d like to know so I can steer clear of them as I will be with a contingent of Jewish peace protesters calling for a cease fire.

Apparently the groups are called 1Vision and Convoy4Palestine. They are supposedly driving from Bradford to join the Million March for Palestine. (Although whether or not there will be some kind of official intervention, I do not know.)

As far as no one calling for Hamas to cease fire, I think it’s because Hamas has offered a cease fire several times now?

I believe it's the contrary, @RebekaTuwin - Hamas have repeatedly stated there will be no ceasefire and they promise to continue October 7th style attacks until all Jews are dead.

There's no way to reason with homicidal terrorists like that, and while they hide behind hostages and the human shields of the civilians of Gaza, I can't see how any peace can be reached.

Israel is committing war crimes becasue they are fighting an enemy who sees its own population as acceptable collateral damage in the face of killing Jews. Israel is wrong to do so, but when Hamas is your opposing force, I don't know what else would have a chance of working.

Ending Hamas would be the best thing for all the poor souls stuck in Gaza.

They have said that too. In most wars, things change daily.
Nethanyu originally said no food, water, electricity, aid, into Gaza or foreigners out of Gaza. As we know, he changed his mind and has allowed some aid in and some wounded/foreigners out.

The same goes for Hamas. It’s part of negotiation as events occur during war that leaders will change their position. No war goes on forever.

On Sky three weeks ago:
Qatar has also hosted Hamas' political office in its capital of Doha for over a decade. Among officials based there is Khaled Mashaal, an exiled Hamas member who survived a 1997 Israeli assassination attempt in Jordan that threatened to derail that country's peace deal with Israel. Also there is Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas' supreme leader.The U.S. sanctioned Mashaal in 2003 for being “responsible for supervising assassination operations, bombings and the killing of Israeli settlers.” Washington sanctioned Haniyeh in 2018, saying he had “close links with Hamas’ military wing and has been a proponent of armed struggle, including against civilians.” Mashaal, in an interview with Sky News this week, said hostages taken during Hamas' attack on Oct. 7 could be released if Israel stops its airstrikes — something incredibly unlikely as Israel prepares for a ground offensive inside the Gaza Strip.Israel's military says 222 people, including foreigners, were believed captured by Hamas during the incursion and taken into Gaza. Four of those have been released, a mother and daughter on Friday and two more on Monday.“Let them stop this aggression and you will find the mediators like Qatar and Egypt and some Arab countries and others will find a way to have them released and we’ll send them to their homes,” Mashaal said of the hostages.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/qatar-becomes-a-key-intermediary-in-israel-hamas-war-as-fate-of-hostages-hangs-in-the-balance/ar-AA1iLdSl?ocid=socialshare

26 October- all hostages can be released if fighting is paused (ceasefire agreed.)
https://inews.co.uk/news/israel-gaza-live-israeli-ground-forces-gaza-raid-2712287

Today:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hamas-israeli-hostages-gaza-ceasefire-0nrdftm7s

Thank you. I will steer very clear of them.

It’s great that you are working for peace - we need more people in both sides to do that.

With regards to the threatening anti Semitic abuse referred to - I am not Jewish but I have seen evidence of that in my area of London - a group of men with Palestinian flags cheering in the streets directly after and with reference to the atrocities of Oct 7th.
Im not Jewish but I can definitely understand why Jewish communities are feeling threatened. As you are Jewish I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you that Jewish concerns about growing anti semitism need to respected. Not everyone seems to take their concerns seriously.

It was also here, the 26 Oct offer.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/sister-of-teenage-hamas-hostage-says-she-would-welcome-ceasefire-to-secure-her-release/ar-AA1iUsKT

You said:

…are all very pro-Israel and against pro-Palestine protests.

“pro-Israel”. Considering any number of Labour councillors and some Labour MPs have opposed Starmer’s stance on Israel, in other words his opposition to a ceasefire, I think you have the answer to your disingenuous question.

And yahoo
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israel-hamas-war-civilian-hostages-140400899.html

It’s one day. It should be left for Armistice Day. Some respect should be shown. The marches are utterly useless anyway and won’t achieve anything.

Definitely! There has been an increase in antiSemitic hate crimes in the U.K. due to the Gaza war. I understand similar happened against Irish people in the U.K. during the Troubles. And similar against Muslims during the Iraq/Afghan/ISIS wars.

I wish it weren’t like that, but it goes with any war I think. Bigots, extremists, violent sorts use protests over wars as a cover to hate attack innocents.

It is what it is, but I’m not going to let a few antiSemites keep me from exercising my freedom to protest. I’m not taking my DC though out of safety concerns. Protests like this are no place for children as they can be dangerous and I don’t want them to see even the odd AntiSemitic placard- I know there will be some.

If it isn't about peace and preventing war then what is the point of remembering?

Doesn't armistice mean ceasefire?

If so, its the most appropriate day to ask why the hypocrisy.

There is some confusion but there are two days
a. Armstice Day on the 11th (which is Saturday) which is about peace and ending the war “to end all wars”
b. Remembrance Sunday on the Sunday closest to the 11th, which this year is the 12th. That is the day to honour veterans and all innocent civilians who have lost their lives to war.

I think a peace protest is appropriate on Armstice Day, which is when it is planned to happen.

sprigatito · Today 13:04
I think it just embodies the disconnect between the political elite and the rest of us tbh. To Eton's finest, Armistice Day is symbolic, reverential and remote. Their antecedents directed wars, they didn't fight them

1,157 old boys and Eton masters died and 5,660 served in World War 1.
So they obviously did fight.

An elderly gentleman selling Remembrance Day poppies was attacked by pro Palestine supporters recently at Waverley station in Edinburgh. Such bravery attacking a 76 year old on his own. Our Scottish first minister has also said he supports pro Palestine marches on Remembrance Day. He apparently supports peaceful protests but it’s not going to stay peaceful is it? Why no protests about Russia, all the other numerous wars and the treatment of women in most Middle Eastern Islamic countries.

I remember seeing on the BBC that Hamas said they’d release some hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. Israel said no. That was a while ago now though. Things change daily.

I suppose that the people chanting "gas the Jews" in Sydney weren't anti-Semitic either? And the ones celebrating in the Edgware Road immediately after the Oct 7th pogrom - before Israel's retaliation had even begun - they were supporters of a peaceful two-state solution, I'm sure.

It wasn't Braverman who suspended the whip of a Labour MP for using the phrase. Neither was it Braverman who banned British footballers from using the phrase, who banned protests in Austria because of its use, or who proscribed the phrase in Germany.

I'd just as soon trust Al Jazeera as a news source as Russia Today or Press TV. It's owned by the Qatari government. Not that the article you linked was even a news article, it was an opinion piece, from a mere six days after the pogrom, before most of the bodies had been collected and uses weasel words like "probably" because it doesn't have any evidence that no one (man, woman, or child) was beheaded. I could just as well post this more recent article from a French source: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231027-israeli-officer-says-he-found-baby-beheaded-in-hamas-attack

It shouldn't even matter exactly how babies were killed. It is a fact that children were killed in large numbers. Pedantic quibbling over the details is a disgusting attempt to downplay the known facts. Those are that 1,400 men, women and children were systematically slaughtered in one night. We also have witness testimony from rescuers and pathologists of the depraved brutality of many of those killings. It doesn't mean that the retaliation is justified, before you go "but what about..."

I think there is a ton of difference between gas the Jews and suggesting that Palestinian should also be allowed to live

Absurd

This is very sad, and everyone marching would be appalled by it! Unfortunately you get thugs in all walks of life. Poor man.

RE: why people are protesting, do you really need to ask that?

Our government has sent the RAF and the Navy to help defend the IDF who have killed 4,250 children and babies in less than a month. That’s not to mention all the pregnant women they’ve killed. All of the newborns. Rishi Sunak gave two thumbs up to these actions. We’re appalled, and we’re protesting our government supporting something so awful.

That’s without even touching on the fact that Israel is an apartheid state according to the UN and Human Rights Watch.

1 child is killed in Gaza by Israel every 10 minutes.

1,000 children are trapped under rubble and slowly dying.

Children in the north of Gaza who are trapped and unable to move and are drinking sea water. No bread for days. Israel has blocked ANY aid from reaching them. Children in the south receive a trickle of aid.

The UN just called Gaza a “graveyard for children.” Rishi Sunak went to Israel and tried to cuddle the man who is doing this.

The poppy seller being assaulted is awful and hopefully the perpetrator will be arrested and charged. However these are rare incidents being used by the media to sensationalise the situation. The government will use it to divide us further and and push the narrative that if someone doesn’t agree with us, they must hate us. The majority of protestors were peaceful and I think that’s important to remember. We need leaders and governments who will unite us, encourage us to put our own biases aside to reduce the tensions that are growing. Our current government doesn’t want this.

Thirst must be the most awful feeling for the people trapped in Gaza.
Hunger hurts, but to be without drinking water must be torture.
Drinking sea water is hopeless due to the osmotic issues in human body with the salt content.
It is hell on Earth to be trapped there.
Why the heck can’t humans get on and accept boundaries , and not land grab. (What Wars are usually about, after all)

I don’t think everyone marching would be appalled by the attack on the old man and to say in this situation that you get thugs in all walks of life is just disingenuous. It trivialises what happened to an old man. Looks like it was some of the march supporters that attacked him because of his support for a tradition that is respected by a lot of British people.
There seems to be constant mention of children killed in Gaza, it is regularly referenced by Palestine supporters, what about the children killed by Hamas? Children are tragically killed in all wars but the constant cry in reports about this particular tragedy is “What about the Palestinian children”. What about the Ukrainian children killed by Russia, there don’t seem to be lots of headlines about them. Hamas couldn’t give a shit about any children and there seems to be a lot of minimising of the appalling cruelty inflicted by Palestine supported terrorists on innocent people including children.

The Labour Party leader, kier starmer, has clearly stated on many occasions that there is anti semitism in the party.

Why are you denying that there is anti semitism on the left and having a strop about it? It’s not the Tories who are rife with anti semitism? Somehow you think you can clearly insinuate that right wing people are racists in your bigoted post, yet cannot have this said about your ‘side’ without calling teacher

Our government cannot help here. Do you really think the UK is some super power, and on Rishi’s command Israel will stop protecting its people on his say so? We have enough crap going on here, with the cost of living crisis, and need to focus (for once) on what’s happening here, instead of a war not of our making. What is the aim of the protests? To drag us into a war? The people marching represent a minuscule percentage of our population, and therefore it could be argued that the vast majority are not supporting what the protesters are looking for. They’re very much in the minority.