Armistice day irrelevance to Pro-Palestine

[bohomoon]

'It's not a time for political demos': War heroes demand pro-Palestine protest on Armistice Day is cancelled - as Met chief Mark Rowley comes under pressure to ban marches amid fears they could spark clashes over Remembrance weekend | Daily Mail Online
So, we buy and wear poppies to remember those who died having fought in WW1. Armistice day was the ceasefire between the allies and Germany on the 11th of November at the 11th hour 1918. We can only ‘remember,’ because we were not there and hence the ‘Remembrance day.’ Yes, I do poppies and I wear them, although I wear the white one that is brooch as a pacifist. And yet the call for a ceasefire is not being heard, in a land faraway, close to the birthplace of Jesus Christ, home to the Abrahamic faith people are being slaughtered, a genocide, horror is very much present today. The idea is so hypocritical, beyond belief. To remember the dead, and not see this relevance today just makes me feel sick, especially when this country is utterly responsible for the chaos in Palestine and Israel.

And you do not try to shut down free speech by accusing people of aligning with hamas when it's bloody clear that isn't what those people are doing

Because you are shamed by the actions of the Israelis government and you don't want to confront those feelings perhaps?

when they're marching alongside organisers of the march who worked previously for Hamas in a very senior capacity, then yes, these people are aligning themselves, however foolishly and unknowingly,
with Hamas.

It is fantastical to think you are not aligning with Hamas when going on these marches and chanting Free Palestine.

You are aligning with religiously motivated terrorists who slaughter families, babies, young people at a freedom festival while chanting Allahu Akbar (God is great).

You may not realise you are doing that, but you are.

Hamas is responsible for what hamas does. Israel is responsible for what Israel does.
"But they started it" shouldn't fly as justification for warfare in 2023. We should all expect better from our leaders.

yep all the Jewish people in the march have links to hamas. wonderful. go on state your source. show us your evidence.

ok, as Mumsnet have inexplicably deleted my post about the links between Hamas members/sympathisers and organisers of the march, here's a link with more information. No doubt it will be shot down as propaganda, but maybe go and watch the Panorama programme too if you're unsure:

www.jns.org/individuals-with-ties-to-hamas-plan-armistice-day-protests-in-london/

and interesting that Mumsnet
have allowed Aljazeera sources and links to be posted. Those haven't been deleted

and this:

www.thejc.com/news/news/several-groups-behind-london-pro-palestinian-march-have-links-to-hamas-1dTlHEq2XhvdqUGvvwPBJV

It's reactive moderation here so Mumsnet only delete what people complain about.

It's quite clear who can't handle alternative points of view.

I agree.
I don't think I've ever reported a post on Mumsnet, all views should
be heard.

therealcookiemonster · Yesterday 12:09

@MrsSkylerWhite sorry, my bad. do you think I will get lynched for pointing out that remembrance Sunday is about WWI and not WW2 and also that WW2 had nothing to do with saving jewish people. if anything the Allies were doing the political equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and singing 'lalalalalala' - except the ones actively selling out Jewish people to the nazis.. and that the daily mail was initially a supporter of the nazi regime..”

”Initially”, you say …?

My grandfather was born in 1897 and fought at the Somme. He was caught in a gas attack which he never really recovered from and woke with nightmares for the rest of his, thankfully, long life. A Londoner through and through, he went on to volunteer as a firewarden during the Blitz despite his age and illness and went on to grow flowers and live in peace.
I am certain that having seen the horrors of the trenches, he would be marching on Saturday if he could have.

· Today 11:42

therealcookiemonster · Yesterday 12:09
**
@MrsSkylerWhite sorry, my bad. do you think I will get lynched for pointing out that remembrance Sunday is about WWI and not WW2 and also that WW2 had nothing to do with saving jewish people. if anything the Allies were doing the political equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and singing 'lalalalalala' - except the ones actively selling out Jewish people to the nazis.. and that the daily mail was initially a supporter of the nazi regime..”

”Initially”, you say …?

My grandfather was born in 1897 and fought at the Somme. He was caught in a gas attack which he never really recovered from and woke with nightmares for the rest of his, thankfully, long life. A Londoner through and through, he went on to volunteer as a firewarden during the Blitz despite his age and illness and went on to grow flowers and live in peace.
I am certain that having seen the horrors of the trenches, he would be marching on Saturday if he could have.

Surely we all agree that children and innocent civilians in both sides are suffering? That being the case I think the protest marches are troubling because they APPEAR to be one sided and imply only one side is suffering. If they genuinely are not one sided then the chants and flags need to be dropped. You don’t need the chants or flags if your concern is genuinely peace - and peace is never possible unless it includes BOTH SIDES.I would 💯 support any March calling for a ceasefire as long as it didn’t use flags and inflammatory chanting. Some of you say that you didn’t realise the chanting was offensive- that’s understandable as lots of us don’t know enough about this conflict. However- since we don’t know enough we need to be very careful about the use of flags and chanting as this is causing deeper divisions and fear amongst minority communities.
I imagine some people will say -“ free country/ free speech I will chant what I want and way whatever flag I choose” which is fair enough . Just don’t claim to be on the side of peace if you completely dismiss the concerns of the Jewish community

@IrishLondoner · Today 13:43

Exactly! The protests only need to be pro-peace. Period.

spot on!

The marches aren’t ‘pro’ anything. They’re anti-Israel and antisemitic.

You need to read up on the Balfour Declaration 1917. Churchill was a supporter of the Zionist movement.
Quotation from Winston Churchill “I do not admit that the dog in the manger has the final right to the manger” — Mar. 12 1937 - PALCIT @tobee

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps You can see a lot of Jews at these marches. Antizionism does not equal antisemitic, you need to read a bit more

I read plenty, thanks.

‘Anti-Zionist’ is code for ‘antisemitic’ among the fellow travellers on these marches.

The marches are antisemitic. You will not see “a lot” of Jews there. That is, respectfully, bollocks.

Can you explain why it is necessary to include Palestinian flags and anti Israeli chanting at the marches? Is it genuinely a March for peace for children on both sides ? Or are you only marching for the Palestinians?

Why is it the fault of dead war heroes though about the situation in Gaza? Come to think of it , why am I to blame ? What say do I have in government policy. Can’t they leave that one day alone ?

To blame British people for what’s going on is ridiculous. OP - you’re an idiot.

How does creating a ‘grave yard for children’ stop Hamas though, truly? Violence, war and destruction just begets more violence and extremism and destruction.

I AM outraged by Hamas. What happened on 7th October is horrific. I don’t think the deaths of thousands of children is proportionate though. I have seen footage (of both the October 7th terrorist attacks and of the bombing of Gaza) that will never ever leave me. I cannot understand how this conflict is going to end, but I’m pretty sure this isn’t the answer.

I have gone and will go, and I’m Jewish, of course there are not a lot of us, but that is because we are the smallest minority in existence! Hundreds in a crowd of a million, is a lot of us.

Would you call this protest “antiSemitic” ? Everyone there was Jewish! All 500….
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/06/statue-of-liberty-protest-gaza-ceasefire

Respect to you for marching for a cause you believe in, but not everyone at that demonstration is Jewish. They are anti-Israel activists, which is their right, but a large proportion of JVP members are not Jewish at all. They regularly platform antisemites, employ antisemitic tropes and rhetoric and do not represent mainstream Jewish community.

i understand that you are Jewish and you feel for the suffering of the Palestinians and you want to show them your support and that there are many other Jewish people who feel the same. However I question whether the flag waving , shouting and chanting on Remembrance Weekend is the best way to heal divisions and work for peace.
The news of the suffering in Gaza is hard to hear. The images are heartbreaking.
The families in Israel are also suffering unimaginable torment because their loved ones have been murdered or kidnapped.
Why not a silent March in remembrance of the Palestinian and Israeli dead on BOTH sides of the conflict? These marches seem to brush aside the issue of the kidnapped children..

Also …. What are your thoughts about the Jewish children who are hostages (held by the same people who raped and murdered their neighbours. ) What would happen if someone joined the protest March this weekend holding up posters of the kidnapped Jewish children? ( I do hope I’m not going to be accused of “whataboutery” … as if the hostages are not a central issue in the current conflict and must be ignored )