Armistice day irrelevance to Pro-Palestine

[bohomoon]

'It's not a time for political demos': War heroes demand pro-Palestine protest on Armistice Day is cancelled - as Met chief Mark Rowley comes under pressure to ban marches amid fears they could spark clashes over Remembrance weekend | Daily Mail Online
So, we buy and wear poppies to remember those who died having fought in WW1. Armistice day was the ceasefire between the allies and Germany on the 11th of November at the 11th hour 1918. We can only ‘remember,’ because we were not there and hence the ‘Remembrance day.’ Yes, I do poppies and I wear them, although I wear the white one that is brooch as a pacifist. And yet the call for a ceasefire is not being heard, in a land faraway, close to the birthplace of Jesus Christ, home to the Abrahamic faith people are being slaughtered, a genocide, horror is very much present today. The idea is so hypocritical, beyond belief. To remember the dead, and not see this relevance today just makes me feel sick, especially when this country is utterly responsible for the chaos in Palestine and Israel.

I understand that Remembrance Day is hugely important and significant for a lot of people. What I don't understand is how a march against war could be considered disrespectful.

Surely, it is honouring the victims of previous wars to say no to more senseless killing? And surely it is honouring the sacrifices of those who fought for our freedoms to exercise those freedoms by protesting against things that we find to be morally wrong?

I can't think of a better day than Armistice Day to have a peace protest.

The whole point of it is "Never Forget", but what's the point of remembering if we as a species demonstrate that we've learned nothing from past wars?

Plus the current situation is directly tied to World War II - the Western powers displaced the resident Arabs and took their homes to make way for Israel, and then turned a blind eye as Israel to illegally expand its borders and occupy more territory. Turned a blind eye to the way Palestinians were treated. Turned a blind eye to the way they treated their own citizens if they happened to be black (such as surreptitiously forcing contraceptives and sterilisation on Ethiopian Jewish women without their consent).

Again, what's the point of "Never Forget" if we keep repeating the same mistakes?

I don't think a march against war is disrespectful, I do think a day to honour our dead from war is respectful and important.

Every large group of people will have a small number of thugs in it. The same could be said for your average crowd of football supporters. I'm extremely saddened by the reports that you mention, but most of the protests have been peaceful and very few of the protesters have broken the law in any way.

I've woken up to two videos this morning @BethDuttonsTwin one of elderly Jewish men at the Trafalgar Square protests insisting that the actions of Israel were not in their name and one of the Met police arresting an Israeli Jewish woman in her eighties for refusing to remove a poster that likened the Netanyahu government to Nazis. All children of holocaust survivors.
We can't unsee dead children. Why don't the lives of Palestinian children matter as much as Israeli children?
It needs to stop, now. Hamas can absolutely never be rooted out in this way.
All Gaza's citizens will be killed in thermobaric bombing and many conscripted 18- 26 year old IDF troops will be needlessly slaughtered in tunnel warfare.
How can we say "Lest we forget?"

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori...

The march should go ahead.

Braverman's statement that people on the march are 'haters' and 'extremist' beggars belief.

The UN has said Gaza is a graveyard for children. How can anyone not speak up about what is happening in Palestine? Should we just sit back and do nothing?

Calls for a ceasefire are the least any decent human being should be calling for. Not sitting back and watching a genocide.

I hope thousands more turn up on Saturday.

How can we say "Lest we forget?"

It seems that we have already forgotten. Anyone who stands at that cenotaph while defending the indiscriminate killing of innocent children is a fucking hypocrite.

Well given the current mood expressed by many above ("lest we forget", "genocide" etc) I for one look forward to the marches continuing post any Israeli cease fire.

For example I hope there's a similar level of protest in London about the appalling loss of life in wars such as the long ongoing Saudi - Yemen conflict...or am I being optimistic?

Everyone knows there will be trouble and it won't be peaceful

It's as if people are actually wanting unrest and violence

Odd

Suella Braverman is in a similar position to Hamza Yousaf in respect to this conflict and I don't think this is widely understood. Both politicians are married to people with strong views on either side of this conflict. Hamza Yousaf has declared this and has taken both praise and criticism for his position. In a more sensible world, Suella Braverman would do this too.

No we haven't forgotten, hence Remembrance Day, those at the cenotaph are there to honour the dead not defend war ,!!!

I don’t think marches against armed conflict should be banned because they coincide with Remembrance occasions.

I do think marches like this one should be banned because they’re antisemitic. They propagate hatred.

The absence of marches about other conflicts tells you all you need to know really. If it’s happening anywhere but Israel, people tut and stay at home. If it concerns the one, single Jewish state protestors get out in the street again and again and chant about their hope that the country will cease to exist.

This isn’t about support for Palestinians at all. It’s about antipathy towards Jews.

You obviously weren't involved in the huge protests against the war in Iraq then, or more recently protests against Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Our TV news is bringing us horrific images of innocent people suffering in Gaza night after night, if you think having a visceral response to that suffering is 'Jew hatred' then you've completely lost touch with humanity.

a 78 year old poppy seller was punched in the face by one of these peaceful protesters.

Peaceful? Bollocks. Anti-semitic.

Many of the wars we commemorate have been against terrorism. This one is the same. It's only raised such a reaction because it's Jews defending ourselves. People don't like that.

I understand people feel protective about Remembrance Sunday. It means a lot to me, my grandfather was an RAF pilot in WW2 and he’s only recently died aged 100 of Covid.

However, these marches are for peace (except for a few unwanted thugs I imagine) and have agreed to keep away from areas like the cenotaph. I stumbled into one of these marches a couple of weeks ago and it was noisy but peaceful. Jewish people wanting peace were also there.

I think it suits our Home Secretary to stir up negative emotions which is such an awful and irresponsible action.

@MorrisZapp

You obviously weren't involved in the huge protests against the war in Iraq then, or more recently protests against Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Protests, yes, but week after week? Numbers in the order of magnitude of a hundred thousand through London’s streets?

…..and that war continues,

Similarly re the conflict in Yemen which I’d put money on has had some MN’ers reaching for Wiki.

Some causes certainly attract more interest than others, the question is why?

Marches against Iraq were opposing US and UK policy. They were not protests against a foreign country defending itself.

There were no mass marches in the UK against Russia’s war on Ukraine.

As for humanity, why do people take to the streets and shout for the end of one country’s actions, and its existence, only in respect of Israel?

@Livelovebehappy - I didn't say it was a fact. I said some people have suggested it. I think Braverman's probably not smart enough to strategise that far but she's made it clear she's on a mission to make these protests seem unacceptable.

No one is pretending there aren't some arseholes and extremists at these protests unfortunately. But it's an utterly bullshit lie that entire protests are yelling 'Jihad!' Which unfortunately is a line people like my husband's cousins in the US are swallowing hook, line and sinker. The vast majority of people, many of them being Jews, just want Israel to stop killing civilians by the thousands.

Please do arrest people who commit assault or shout jihadist or antisemitic slogans. Don't ban the protests, it doesn't protect me as a Jew or my community, it isn't necessary.

I grew up (and I'm getting old now) being told that Remembrance day was an occasion to remember the fallen "of all wars" and reflect on a future where wars are not fought.

If it turns out I'm a bit dim, and missed the bit where it is a political and national celebration, then I've been doing it wrong.

I think it is entirely right to look at all the wars going on round the world on Remembrance Day, and to deplore the loss of life, the refugees, and all the other horrors.

And to demand that the government does not cut overseas aid budgets, and to reinvigorate diplomacy. and to look at a complete overhaul of how the UN works, to mitigate the effects of current wars and to try to avert future ones.

But I think the Cenotaph service and the other parades and services should be left alone.

I never think one set of demonstrators pissing on another's parade is the right thing. Not unless you find a parade to be utterly unacceptable such that it should be stopped by any and every means.. Remembrance is not that of that sort

I agree with you @WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps .

I'm deeply uncomfortable with the prospect of banning an anti-war protest, especially one created to remember the horrors of war but I don't think that the pro-Palestine marches are only anti-war. There is definitely anti-semitism at play in parts of the groups demonstrating.

@MNHQ please delete that post by @travelnorth it's clearly racist

I’m concerned about the marches stirring up hatred against the Jewish community here and the lack of consideration for the fear that is caused by some of the chants and songs that are sung. This is the antithesis of ‘never again’.