Armistice day irrelevance to Pro-Palestine

[bohomoon]

'It's not a time for political demos': War heroes demand pro-Palestine protest on Armistice Day is cancelled - as Met chief Mark Rowley comes under pressure to ban marches amid fears they could spark clashes over Remembrance weekend | Daily Mail Online
So, we buy and wear poppies to remember those who died having fought in WW1. Armistice day was the ceasefire between the allies and Germany on the 11th of November at the 11th hour 1918. We can only ‘remember,’ because we were not there and hence the ‘Remembrance day.’ Yes, I do poppies and I wear them, although I wear the white one that is brooch as a pacifist. And yet the call for a ceasefire is not being heard, in a land faraway, close to the birthplace of Jesus Christ, home to the Abrahamic faith people are being slaughtered, a genocide, horror is very much present today. The idea is so hypocritical, beyond belief. To remember the dead, and not see this relevance today just makes me feel sick, especially when this country is utterly responsible for the chaos in Palestine and Israel.

However I question whether the flag waving , shouting and chanting on Remembrance Weekend is the best way to heal divisions and work for peace.

As far as I know, this weekend has Armstice Day and then Remembrance Sunday. So it isn’t a Remembrance weekend. The peace protest in London is scheduled for Armstice Day only. It’s not going to affect Remembrance Day. The healing of divisions to sustain peace comes after two sides stop trying to kill as many people as possible. Our Government needs to be pressured to join the majority of the UN in calls for a ceasefire.

Why not a silent March in remembrance of the Palestinian and Israeli dead on BOTH sides of the conflict?

Doing a vigil for Israeli civilian deaths and hostages on Remembrance Sunday.
It’s a weekend, two days. Time to do both.

What are your thoughts about the Jewish children who are hostages

I think it is being forgotten that they are the true human shields being used by Hamas in this conflict. A hostage is a human shield. To be a human shield, the person has to dearly matter to your enemy, but not to you. Palestinians in Gaza don’t fit this definition as they matter to Palestinians, not to Israelis. By matter I mean ties of family and identity beyond basic humanity.

What would happen if someone joined the protest March this weekend holding up posters of the kidnapped Jewish children?

I have no idea what would happen as protests can be unpredictable. I’d be happy to see it myself as the aim of the protest on Saturday is to call for a cease fire to prevent more civilian deaths of both Palestinians and the Israeli hostages. If I were to do it, I’d probably do a placard with a Palestinian child and an Israeli child hostage and have a message of “Save All Children. Ceasefire Now”

Well why don't you be the one to hold the placard supporting both Israeli and Palestinian children? If the matches are of a truly peaceful nature and are simply calls for a ceasefire I can't see there being much of a problem.

What are your thoughts about the Jewish children who are hostages

You said “ think it is being forgotten that they are the true human shields being used by Hamas in this conflict. A hostage is a human shield. To be a human shield, the person has to dearly matter to your enemy, but not to you. Palestinians in Gaza don’t fit this definition as they matter to Palestinians, not to Israelis. By matter I mean ties of family and identity beyond basic humanity. “

I’m sad that you , as a Jew, express no empathy or understanding for the plight of the Israeli families who suffer as their children are kept hostage . What has happened to your ties of family and identity?

This division between the meaning of Armistice Day and Remembrance Day is a new one and doesn’t deal with the fact that this protest is one sided, inflammatory and divisive.

I have another question for anybody going on the protest? Would it be ok / safe/ advisable for a Jewish person attending the protest to wear signs and symbols of their faith? If not , why not?
And will RebekahTuwin be as open about her Jewishness at the London protest this weekend as she has been here?

@IrishLondoner yes ofcourse. Every march I have attended has had Jews...have you seen the pro Palestinian marches in New York and other parts of the US, lots of Orthodox Jews and liberal Jews have marched with placards like Not in our Name

That’s really good to hear. I haven’t seen that.

marched with placards like Not in our Name

Like wot I did in London in 2003 ?

I completely agree with all of this

Me too. I have a sign that says “Never Again for Anyone”

Me too, but then again I am Jewish and I tend to bee line for the Jewish contingents.

And will you and the other Jewish protesters hold up a placard asking us to remember the Jewish children held as hostages by murderers and rapists? Please let me know… You just don’t seem to want to mention them in any way at all…
I still feel the protests are one sided. The fact that Jewish people are there doesn’t make them less one sided if none of the Jewish people are drawing attention to the plight of the children hostages.

Are you joking?! How can you so wildly misinterpret what I have posted and accuse me of lack of empathy for the hostages. You’ve left out the vigil I am going to, I have gone once a week to a vigil for the hostages.

They are being forgotten by the Israeli government. Why do you think families and protesters have camped out in Tel Aviv calling on the government to make their safety a priority?

Calling for a ceasefire is showing empathy for the safety of the hostages. Cheering on blowing up the Gaza tunnels where the hostages are being held prisoner with Hamas as human shields is not showing empathy because this approach has, is and will continue to kill the hostages until all are dead and no more will come home safely.

Every bomb dropped on a Hamas target is also being dropped on Israeli hostages. Tell me, how this approach shows any empathy for the hostages?

Are you going to bring to bring the posters of the hostages on the protest March this weekend? Will they be remembered on the March?( I don’t recall seeing any empathy to the hostages from you up till now…)

You will be marching with people who support Hamas. You know that ?

So as you have said, you are not Jewish nor are you an Israeli citizen. Despite this, you have now taken it upon yourself to dictate how I as a Jewish person and Israeli citizen as well as all Jewish people in the U.K. should protest in a manner that is acceptable to you. Unbelievable.

@IrishLondoner

You will be marching with people who support Hamas. You know that ?

I'm sure you'll get some push back to that comment but nevertheless it's valid.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see how Saturday PMs march will be portrayed in for example publications overseas such as the Tehran Daily Bugle......

FFS - I’ve asked you questions. I’m not dictating to you. Are you saying I can’t have a view and can’t tell you my view because I’m not Jewish or Palestinian?
I really don’t care what race / religion or colour you are. Why should you care about mine?

No we will not be. There may be gatecrashers that do, but they will not be marching with us but against us.

This was not a question. It was you dictating to me and other Jews.

The fact that Jewish people are there doesn’t make them less one sided if none of the Jewish people are drawing attention to the plight of the children hostages.

You are welcome to your views. You crossed a line in saying how we should feel and protest.

@IrishLondoner

If I replace “Jewish” with “Irish” in what you said we Jews should be doing, perhaps you can realise the problem with your comment:

The fact that Jewish Irish people are there doesn’t make them less one sided if none of the Jewish Irish people are drawing attention to the plight of the children hostages.

An apology would be welcomed. Shalom.

Yes I apologise because that was very badly phrased. I really meant that the March will be one sided if no one ( of any nationality) is not drawing attention to the plight of the hostages. I’m genuinely sorry that my phrasing suggested it is only the responsibility of Jewish people. That wasn’t my intention.
I do, of course, respect your right to show your horror at what is happening. I’m just genuinely not sure this approach is the right one as I think it is too one sided.
I think I’ve said enough. Apologies for any offence.

For me, a child is a child, regardless of their nationality. I am sick and tired of some who seem to put more value on the life of a Jewish child than the one of a Palestinian one. Every single life is precious and according to the UN, Gaza has become a graveyard for children.
Both Hamas and the Israeli government are guilty of war crimes. I would also like to point out that IDF have, so far, killed 7 hostages through their "precision bombings".
Finally, how do you know no Jewish people are drawing attention to the plight of the children hostages? What a sweeping statement!

Thank you.

I do agree with you in principle as that I think the plight of the hostages is being largely forgotten. I am afraid that many think the hostages are already as good as dead and not worth worrying about or adjusting tactics to be more precise or to try and negotiate a prisoner swap, which fills me with unspeakable grief.

A ceasefire doesn’t benefit Hamas or IDF, it benefits the Israeli hostages and the Palestinian civilians in Gaza. As a hostage release can then be negotiated a
along with humanitarian aid and corridors for civilians.

The protests for a ceasefire often focus only on the Palestinian civilians and the protests against a ceasefire often focus only on the safety of Israelis in Israel.

The Israeli hostages held prisoner with Hamas aren’t even mentioned when people discuss the IDF bombing ‘Hamas targets’ or ‘fighting Hamas’ as justification for using heavy explosives that kill indiscriminately. A howitzer shell, a laser guided bomb, neither will kill just the terrorists where it lands. It will explode and kill everyone within a certain radius which likely would include an Israeli hostage or hostages. And child hostages being smaller and more fragile have a much lower chance of surviving a direct hit than an adult terrorist kidnapper sitting next to them.

No one said “ No Jewish people are drawing attention to the plight of the hostages “ . That would be utterly ludicrous.
The statement ( and this thread) is about people ON THE MARCH and referring to the fact that no one here ( whatever nationality or creed)has said that the protesters on the March would include posters of the hostages. There was an “ if” in the statement you misquoted. So not such a sweeping statement after all.

There was an “ if” in the statement you misquoted.
Cutting and pasting a statement verbatim cannot be misquoting it, as it is literally quoting it. The if is still there.

You have put something completely different and which no one has said in quotation marks as if you are quoting me or someone. That is literally misquoting.

Bog off with your gaslighting.