“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

Only on mumsneet. In real life I have only ever heard it to describe racist white women who use their white privilege to cause black men/women/children harm.

In my family we call them John.

This is awful. So awful. My husband had similar at work, with a female boss who found him 'aggressive'. 🙄.

No, she’s an unpleasant racist person who should be called out for her racism.

oh and of course this woman would apologise and put her hands up and say yes I am being racist how terrible of me and I shall now go and reflect on my behaviour

I don’t care in what context it is used, I will consider anyone who uses it to be lazy, misogynistic and inarticulate.

I personally don’t feel I should tell a person who has been subjected to racism that they shouldn’t use a term that to them perfectly sums up behaviour of a racist woman that they are lazy, misogynistic and inarticulate

isn’t that they have been subjected to racism the issue

Is it that hard to say the word racist? And why is it significant that the racist person is a woman? Are men never racist? What’s the name for them? Is there a man’s name that is now used to describe a racist?

Let’s just label the bloody behaviour! No
need to take a woman’s name and turn it into something derogatory.

How does calling her a Karen help with any of that?

Becuase the term is used against a woman who uses underhand racism and at times so she can’t be called out on being racist

do you really think this type of women is going to put her hands up and say you are right I am sorry i apologise I shall reflect on my behaviour

she will no doubt go off and complain that she was called a Karen how dare she be if she was told she is being racist she would ask how, what words did I use etc she isn’t worthy of having that discussion with she knows and she won’t change

if a name was used for male behaviour of this kind what is the issue

That the behaviour is recognised openly without having to explain exactly how is what for many is important

Again, why do you have to use a woman’s name for this? Why is using a woman’s name any more effective than just calling her a racist?

Because the name was taken on to call out this kind of behaviour

its unfortunate for women called Karen some are bothered others are not

Sorry you don’t explain why a woman’s name was needed? You can’t call out particular behaviours in any other way - like labelling the actual behaviour?

It doesn't matter what weird and wonderful name we could invent for male racists. Nobody would ever call them it to their face anyway.

It's always a good day to bring women to task though.

Because underhand racism is hard to call out

people will ask prove it, what did I say or do

why should anyone who has been subjected to this have to engage with the perpetrator they use a term that sums up this behaviour and acknowledge that it’s been recognised

Because underhand racism is hard to call out

people will ask prove it, what did I say or do

And the same question again: why does using the name 'Karen' make racism easier to call out? In what way does it 'prove' anything?

Just use the word racist.
Stop making crap up which hurts women and ONLY older women at that.
Use the word racist.
Using Karen as an insult has nothing at all to do with racism where ever I have seen it used.
Just as using the word bastard is used as an insult.
Or the word whore.
Many, many women are called whores and yes it is only ever used as a insult to women, never men. It’s used to shut someone up. I’ve been called it in the past and I have never technically been a whore.

It's all gone a bit Eastenders! Who called you a whore? I've had bitch a few times but whore eludes me. Probably won't happen now.

Actually when I was 19 my boyfriend called me a slag. I didn't even dump him.

By a man who’s advances I rejected. It was a long time ago but believe me even though I’ve never had to work as a prostitute, it had the desired effect.

Another example of people desperate to map American experiences onto a completely different society. There was a half hearted attempt to brand a certain type of white US men as ' Chad'. But it hasn't really stuck. Because this is all about misogyny.

If you Google “Karen meme” you get page after page of sexist memes. Most are “talk to the manager” spin offs. On an entire page, 2 racism. There were more memes referencing a disbelief in the Corona virus than there were referencing racism.

Karen is a white middle aged woman. She is hated for many things - taking the kids, talking to the manager, being an anti vaxxer. Being racist is just ONE MORE THING we can hate middle aged women for. Originally, she was hated for trying to play video games with men in an annoying fashion. She evolves, because we can always hate middle aged women a little bit more, can’t we?

@Lndnmummy last week I heard a boy about 9 yo call his mum a Karen because she pulled him up on cheating in a card game they were playing. The teenagers I teach use it absolutely in the "boring old woman should shut up" way. In their usage and understanding it is100% about misogyny and the latest iteration of the "hag" archetype that led to witch burning.

Why though? Why does it help? Why was a typically middle aged woman’s name chosen? It’s just a lazy co-opting of an existing lazy misogynistic ageist slur.

And in any case, its use is primarily a put down for uppity middle aged women who have the temerity to challenge poor service or antisocial behaviour.
The fact that you have chosen to believe it isn’t is neither here nor there.

This thread was started by someone who objects to its current and widespread use and you and others have hijacked it to

a) defend its use because sometimes it’s used to call out racists
b) deny it’s being used as a slur against middle aged women

Why is that?

There was a pretty much identical thread to this a couple of months back. An American OP who simply wouldn't stop posting links about the "original" incident and who insisted it couldn't possibly mean anything else. It's a pretty commonly observed fact that the meaning of words can be changed and misappropriated all the time..."gay" being an obvious example.

Language is not static and by far the most important thing is the context and intent behind usage. Think about a teacher who gets hauled over the coals for allowing students to read the N word in Mice and Men compared to someone who shouts it as abuse. Same word but the context changes the meaning and the acceptability of its use.