“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

But these conversations still hold value because someone, somewhere, someday will be held to account for their words and actions. Simply labelling them as “Karens” isn’t enough.

Please do elaborate on what would be "enough" because otherwise that sounds like a veiled threat against some women on this thread who merely disagree with your particular take on things, which seems a little excessive, @DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz

So now I’m being “threatening” too. The racist lines really do write themselves.

I’m tapping out of this thread now. It’s somewhere between hilarious and deflating which generally isn’t a good place to be.

If anyone reading these most recent posts is ever interested, please do read the entire thread end to end and see how many hypothetical examples of thinly veiled racism that were discussed earlier on came to fruition somewhere along the way. It really is quite comical.

I said male Karens. If I meant trans women I'd have said trans women.

Not sure why you felt the need to pepper a little transphobia into the conversation, you bored?

So now I’m being “threatening” too. The racist lines really do write themselves.

I’m tapping out of this thread now.

Yes I'm sure you are.

I said male Karens. If I meant trans women I'd have said trans women.

Yes, they are male too. But agree no need to derail the thread, it's enough of a shit show already as it is.

No, I just wondered because it seems strange that if Karen is an insult aimed at women i was wondering why they employed cis men. And no I don't have any phobia of cross dressers or anyone else.

@Ereshkigalangcleg just wanted clarity that's all. I find it odd that they would employ cis men if the whole point of Karen is that it's about women. Is all. I could understand is it was all women employed there (including transmen).

I think the term has evolved in that respect though. I have heard young people that I work with referring to males as Karen's based on their behaviour but moreso from the perspective of that person being deliberately antagonistic and complaining or belittling use of the word than the racist behaviour meaning of the word. So I do think in that particular context its now being applied more generically. They would be more likely to use the term racist for someone being racist in any manner but I don't think that takes away from the original meaning and context of the term. I think it now has dual usage.

I think you have a point there. On the other side of the pond there is more emphasis on it being about racism. It does seem like two different concepts and one word.

Let me be clear. I said that I had struggled to respond to a particular post and had been thinking about how best to do it.
I then realised that @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting had already responded in a way that was much better than I could have done.

English is not my first language and I admire the way @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting writes. I have said so several times on this thread.

So no, it was not an unfortunate slip of the tongue. I admire the way she writes.

Although I very much doubt your intentions, I would like to address white savourism, for the benefit of others reading this thread.I do not want to shy away from it.

We live in the UK, we live in white supremacy. I have a huge amount of white privilege, resulting in blind spots. White savourism IS a blind spot resulting from our white privilige.

Just because I proactively work really hard to be anti racist, an ally and to unlearn those behaviours, does not mean I am free of Blindspots.

That journey will never end.

@Lavender14 has written about it much more eloquently than I have.

Its probably because those concepts reflect behaviours that overlap in terms of someone's self awareness, personal accountability and value base. If someone is entitled and demanding then it makes sense that they're more likely to use that against a person of colour in a racist way due to unconscious bias and white privilege. If they are bad at taking responsibilitly and being accountable for their actions then they're more likely to blame the other person and cry victim when called out which we know is especially harmful when enacted against black people. I don't think it's all that surprising in that respect. I think a lot of the dissent on this thread seems to stem from some pps unwillingness to accept that the UK is still steeped in racism.

Interesting. I hadn't looked at it this way before.

I suppose it makes sense as well that middle aged women are more likely to feel invisible and maybe lack self esteem and a sense of agency so more likely to vent their frustrations on others and act aggressive and entitled. Playing the victim suggests a low sense of self worth and agency. Inferiority complex . Not saying all women in middle aged are like this (I'm in my 40s myself) but probably many are. And if they are racist as well and resentful of black people being successful e.g. Someone may be in a service job because they are putting themselves through further education, and I guess someone older may reaent someone being young with many opportunities available to them.

I'm not racist (I may have unconscious bias which am unaware of) nor am I black so I have no lived experience of either perspective, but I'm guessing a racist person would believe a black person didn't deserve those opportunities (eg. Thinking of a historical example, the Windrush emigrants to Britian and how they were accused of "taking our women/men and our jobs" kind of thing).

Your first paragraph is ageist.

Wow, agree, what a statement!

Thank you @Lndnmummy . Ignore the haters.