“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

As I said before, I couldn’t care less about the word “Karen” itself. It’s not enough to just say “racism” because it’s a very specific, unique type of racism that is only perpetuated by white women. It’s a dangerous type of racism because it presents black people as the aggressors and the WW will always have the sympathy of others to support and reinforce said racism.

It needs its own name. I don’t care whether that name is “Karen” or something else, but the actions need checking and there is no way of doing that effectively without giving said actions a name. Call it Karen, call it White Women White Womaning, call it Feminism-Blanche. I honestly DGAF, but don’t hide behind the semantics and ignore the actions themselves.

What unique name do we use for the specific, 99% male type of racism that results in battering, injury and death? I really think we should call it out. These people should feel ashamed.

@MorrisZapp why is that relevant in this conversation? We are talking specifically about the type of racism behind the word “Karen”. If you want to name gammons, NFs and EDL warriors something else you go ahead and do that. This is about a type of racism from white women. This discussion needs space.

I agree op. As if there aren't already huge numbers of insulting words for women and girls in our language. We don't need any more! Just today I saw someone online actually called Karen mocked for her name. She'd said nothing wrong.

sacraparental.com/2016/05/14/everyday-misogyny-122-subtly-sexist-words-women/

I didn't call black women that. You assumed that black women are defending the right to call all women Karens. Despite the fact I pointed out that is not my experience in RL.
On social media, anyone can say they are anything.
But in RL as I said in my posts, the women I see campaigning and working in communities across the world from all races (and fwiw if you had read my posts you would have seen my family and my heritage are not white but I refuse to declare my race on every post like some social media one drop rule) aren't trying to justify misogynist insults. Instead, they are working together. Women in the UK and Sudan are campaigning on issues in the DRC that have been brought to them by women from the DRC because if local women raise their voices, they are subject to death threats. Women from the DRC are campaigning on issues in Sudan for the same reason, etc, etc. Women have always mobilised. Women have always recognised the strength of community and the creation of structures to circumvent patriarchal oppression.
Women calling other women names and justifying why it's ok for men to call women those names? Well I've never met them in village halls campaigning for childcare or in rural communities in Africa setting up micro-credit schemes or in meeting rooms campaigning for law changes or in government corridors writing white papers to challenge structural racism. There are women all over the world doing the work. And that work isn't justifying any type of misogyny.

Well quite.

However it’s possible to object to the weaponising of white women’s tears (obviously dangerous to Black people), at the same time as objecting to the use of a woman’s name to shut up middle aged women of any colour or background, which is misogynistic.

They are two completely separate issues. I’m allowed to be bothered about both.

I don't personally agree with much of what I've heard on here about white feminism but it obviously needs discussion. I'm all for it. Racism and feminism will always need discussion.

What I don't support is special terms just for the female flavour of negative behaviour that men also participate in. It's sexist.

All of the negative behaviours mentioned on this thread can be described as racist. Women don't get a free pass to be racist, call it what it is.

As if the UK social media morons going after any woman who disagrees with them know or care about the specific (and yes, despicable) behaviour that the Karen term originated from/was popularised by in the US.

People who use misogynistic words have always tried to excuse it by claiming women deserve it because they behave in a negative way that men don't.

Yawn. 💤 😴 Its nothing new. Same old, same old misogynistic bollocks, whether done by a man or women.

objecting to the use of a woman’s name to shut up middle aged women of any colour or background, which is misogynistic.

This part I agree with, which is why I said it should be challenged as such in my post at 09.57. But to ignore the history of the term is to ignore the behaviours that white women continue to display. Please don’t do that.

I hate, hate, hate it.

It's not even a term meaning badly behaved. It's a slur, levelled at mature women who simply aren't afraid to stand up for themselves, who won't accept poor treatment or service and who won't be disregarded purely because they're 'women of a certain age.' It is ageist as well as misogynistic.

My name is Karen.

I know 3 middle aged Karen's actually.. all nurses; ironically totally opposite to the stereotype!
All lovely kind women; 2 are lesbians & 1 is married to a Muslim.

I think using an actual person's name as a stereotype is stupid & offensive.
A bit like using 'Sharon & Tracey' to mean thick & 'common' was offensive back in the 1990s.

What I don't support is special terms just for the female flavour of negative behaviour that men also participate in. It's sexist.

Exactly. It's 2023. Women are not inferior or worse than men. Wake up!

Oh, is this like Spartacus?

My name is Karen!

I agree with you Maid. When women are younger I think they find it more difficult to assert themselves and men are more likely to give any assertiveness a pass if they fancy them. When you’re older and no longer GAF about displeasing men and when men are no longer interested in shagging you, you are a Karen who should preferably not be seen and definitely should not be heard.

Or even just exist. I went to check in at the airport the other day and the (young woman) agent looked at my passport then at me and said 'you're not a real Karen are you?'. I pretended not to understand but it was so irritating. I hate the way my name is used.

@MrsHarrisAParis

I’m going to be honest, I am struggling to see how any of your most recent post is relevant to anything I have said. There is a big difference between community support for oppressed women and every day sexism and racism that women face.

As I said, the work you are doing is important and I’m sure you’ve helped hundreds of women in adverse situations that they wouldn’t have been in if it weren’t for patriarchy and greed. But that really has nothing to do with what I have been saying about the every day microaggressions that occur with these “Karen-like” behaviours.

Anyway, I feel I’ve said enough on this thread now, I’m only going to end up going around in circles. If anyone can come up with a new catchy name that won’t upset white women while also calling white women out on this type of racism, good luck to you.

The most sexist person I've ever known was my late grandmother. God, she could be withering. If she wanted to deal with serious business in a shop she would demand to 'see the mannie, not the girlie' (Aberdonian vernacular).

She served men ahead of women at dinner, and bought my brother a bigger Easter egg because 'he's the boy'.

She was openly, vocally sexist. It doesn't need a special name because she was a woman. It's sexism whoever does it.

No we won't come up with yet another misogynistic word for women. There are enough already thanks.

Exactamundo

The meaning has drifted, and there's nothing you or any of us can do about that.

The pondlife on UK social media calling people Karen are usually both racist and sexist anyway

Here you go. This should be more than enough sexist language for you to be getting on with. Wanting to join the ranks of people who've invented new misogynistic insults is not something to boast about.

sacraparental.com/2016/05/14/everyday-misogyny-122-subtly-sexist-words-women/

Do you not think that the issue is in how the term is misused?

My mum is utterly horrific to retail assistants/ servers etc. It goes beyond assertiveness and is rude, condescending and belittling. I used to absolutely cringe watching her interactions at times because having worked in retail myself, I'm very aware that the person working on the end shouldn't have to deal with that attitude. I do genuinely dread the day someone films her and calls her out because she won't understand why it's happening. She's got zero self reflection skills and will see herself as a complete victim even when she's in the wrong.

For me it's not about women who are making a valid complaint, or being reasonable in addressing poor service. It's about women who are being OVERLY entitled/ rude/ snobbish/ aggressive to people they see as beneath them. Or who resort to child like behavior when they don't get their own way. In that context I think it works quite well in trying to promote some accountability. The issue is when some people apply it to women who are being reasonable and who are justified in order to shut them down. That is when I think it becomes misogynistic.

For me it's not about women who are making a valid complaint, or being reasonable in addressing poor service. It's about women who are being OVERLY entitled/ rude/ snobbish/ aggressive to people they see as beneath them.

Don't men do this too? Why don't we have a special name for them?

I don't like it either, but I was bullied at school by an nasty girl called Karen so I take some perverse pleasure in knowing her name is now so tainted!