“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

I don't know. It's only men who are called "gammons" - a term for unpleasant, red faced, racist middle-aged/old men. Also older men are constantly referred to as "grumpy old gits" etc. 90% of the time it's only men who are called wankers, dickheads, bastards.

I agree op. And when I try to explain to anyone why it’s horrible. I just get a completely blank look, like they just don’t get it. They think I am misunderstanding the term.

Agreed. Ageist and sexist.

Even the 'white woman calls the police' version is sexist. A woman feels threatened by a man, maybe she cries, so she calls for help. 'Tears are a woman's weapon!' says the MRA. No. Tears aren't weapons, words aren't weapons. What people are actually worried about here is male violence - but the white men who they fear might react violently towards a black man are conveniently erased from the narrative. They don't get a nasty little name. Oh no, it's all the scared woman's fault, with the justification that she can't really have been afraid and they must have been fake tears because she's a racist.

But most of the time what we see with 'Karen' doesn't involve this scenario at all. It's a way to try to shut down a middle-aged woman daring to be assertive.

It doesn't matter what the term may or may not have meant in the States. In Britain(and this is a British site) it is used to shut up predominantly working class, middle aged woman who dare to complain. There's not a racist meaning to it here because the racial makeup of the UK is different to the US and the history is longer and more complex.

See also: fanny, pissed, pants, chips, biscuit, rubber.

It's misogynist AND ageist.

So bloody true. Men are scary so let's blame women instead.

I think initially it was about recognising entitled, racist, classist and rude behaviour from middle aged women. Particularly recognising the damage white, reasonably well to do women can do to black people by outright lying and involving police in unnecessary situations. It was originally used to replace the name of women called out for racist behaviour. That in itself I didn't have a major issue with. However I think it's now become a way to shut women down and has become over used and lost what I understood to be the original intent. And that's made it misogynistic.

@InvisibleDuck I’m sorry but white women’s tears absolutely are weapons and are used in every day scenarios, whether in big cases that would be taken to criminal court like the ones described above, or in minor disagreements where WW turn on the tears and the (usually) BW is viewed as the aggressor. It begins as early as primary school playgrounds and extends way through to adulthood.

If WW on this thread claim to never have weaponised their tears, well done to them. I’m not expecting WW to notice when it does happen because they’ll never be on the receiving end of it, but perhaps you’ll notice it more now. Even just watch a little reality TV where a WW has a disagreement with a BW or BM, and you’ll see it.

That’s a Karenism.

Calling the police because you saw a BM sitting in his car in the supermarket car park (waiting to collect me), is a Karenism.

Screaming at a black family because they “shouldn’t be parking there” despite parking outside their friends’ home who they are visiting, is a Karenism.

All of these are examples I have experienced in the U.K., not America, just within the last year.

I’m sorry if your name is Karen and you’re upset that it’s your name that has been chosen here. Maybe next time someone uses the term for something that isn’t similar to any of the above, you can take it as an opportunity to explain what a “Karen” really is, making yourselves and others consciously aware of avoiding any real Karenisms in the future.

My black husband has had the police called on him, been asked what he is doing outside our own house, been refused entry, asked to provide proof of ID for ridiculous things, stopped and searched.... The insinuation that this type of racism doesn't happen in the UK is ridiculous.

This in spades

This is often true. The ones that make me laugh are the MILs and SILs who come to visit and sit on their arse without helping.

I don't think I've ever seen one complaint on here about a male family member visiting and not helping. 'oh well, I wouldn't ask him, he's useless' etc.

^this all day long.

Men may be scary absolutely, but white women's tears have been resulting in the injury and death of black men going back years and years. This is the lingering manifestation of that. And those videos are loaded with racism and microagression of women using their whiteness as a way to make the black men (and black women and children in a lot of instances) see the power they hold. That is unacceptable and I think it's right it should be called out.

Of course racism happens in the UK every day. That is appalling. But the slur Karen is not used that way here, largely it is used to silence any middle aged woman, of any colour. It’s pure sexism and ageism here.

I hate it.

There is a shop in my town run by a hippie, right side of history type woman. She has a "X many days without a Karen" counter in the shop. She posts on her FB business page with "yet another Karen in the shop today moaning about x,y,z".

It reeks of misogyny.

I used to support her business. I won't go bloody near her now.

Then explain what the real meaning is to them.

It's misogynist and ageist. People will pretend it's only used against white women but it's used against any woman who has an opinion and especially if that opinion tries to enforce any boundaries on male behaviour or bullying.

As for the PP saying it's only online - obviously they don't spend any time in schools; with teens; with young men in RL; with (ironically!) the new breed of 'intersectional feminists' who think feminism is playing pick-mes to men, etc.

This. I am not wild about the term even when used "correctly" but I completely get it in the context of a white women using her privilege to be racist or cause problems for someone of colour.

But certainly in my world in Surrey, I mostly hear it very much to shut down any woman who dares to voice a complaint or make her voice heard. And I hate that. DS called me a Karen once - I forget the situation but it was something minor in a shop where I asked for something and the shop assistant happily provided it. - but DS seemed to think I had no right to do that. He won't be doing that again. We even had the conversation about the racism aspect as all the people involved were white!

You want middle aged women who are being insulted by sexist pricks to bear the responsibility of educating said pricks not about sexism, but of racism in the USA?

That's very weird. And sexist.

This.

@DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz

I'm sorry that you've experienced those things in the UK. They're undeniably racist and they shouldn't happen.

I don't think they're unique to women. White men can be racist too.

I still take issue with the idea of tears as a weapon. If I cry, as an adult woman, it's because I feel trapped in a situation and completely powerless. It's not deliberate and it's not something I want to happen. The idea of someone claiming they were a 'weapon' because the man I felt threatened by was black is really disturbing to me (hypothetical - I haven't been in this particular situation. I have cried because I was afraid of white men's behavior and I can imagine that in the same situation but with men of another race I'd react similarly.)

That doesn't mean I think racist behaviors are acceptable. If someone is crying and being racist, the racism is still wrong.

Why would it be sexist? Do I really need to quote Sojourner Truth here?

It’s very simple. You say: “A Karen is a term used for white woman who weaponise their whiteness against people of colour. Is that what’s happening here?” If the answer is “yes”, then it could be a good time for some self-reflection. If the answer was “no”, then the person calling you a Karen now understands what a Karen is.

It's been adopted by the Andrew Tate culture too.
And yet you'll still get posters on here saying they're female and trying to defend it. White knighting for abusive men, bullies and misogynists to have yet another term to use to abuse women. Working hard to defend men's position and power; to dehumanise and undermine justified female anger so sexist arseholes can continue abusing women. They have turned back women's rights by decades. They seem to aspire to be handmaidens and thought the Handmaid's Tale was aspirational rather than dystopian.

Men may be scary absolutely, but white women's tears have been resulting in the injury and death of black men going back years and years.

Women's tears?
Or men's violence?

Women are not responsible for men's actions.

@InvisibleDuck yes white men can be (and are) racist too, but not in the specific way that “Karen” implies. I can’t speak on why you specifically cry when you do, but there is a long history of white woman (not men) using those tears against both black men and women and it still happens on a daily basis in the U.K. as well as the US.

To be honest, I couldn’t care less about the word itself, I just wish white women would understand the impacts of the actions that lead to someone being called a “Karen” in its original sense. For years these behaviours have gone unchecked because they are so difficult to pinpoint, but now there is a word for it, white women feel that they are the ones under attack.

I’m not talking about the Reddit incels or teenagers who throw the term about willy nilly - they either need educating or ignoring. I’m talking about the very real behaviours that just slide by on a daily basis without anyone feeling they should be called out on them.

Things are either women's fault or women's responsibility. Same as it ever was.