“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

It's sexist and ageist and shouldn't be used at all.

In order to research this, by the way, I searched the term “Karen” using the advanced search function, which allows you to look specifically for usage within certain time frames. This way you can absolutely see when it came into usage and how it was being used at that time. You can pinpoint the exact time when it merged with the “Talk to the manager” haircut.

I’m very ASSERTIVE about my knowledge of the evolution of Karen because I’ve personally taken the time to research it and I don’t just think I’m right, I know I’m right.

I’m not talking about advanced search on mumsnet, but the date tool on Google, by the way. It’s a piece of research anyone can easily do for themselves.

It seems that the term Karen evolved on Reddit from users riffing off one guy’s posts about his ex-wife. It became a meme about an entitled middle aged white woman with a specific haircut saying “I’d like to speak to the manager.”
www.vox.com/2020/2/5/21079162/karen-name-insult-meme-manager
From there it was taken up by black in the US and UK to specifically describe describe passive aggressive racism committed by white women, with potentially dangerous consequences.
But parallel to that the original generic use continued, and broadened so that ‘Karen’ became a handy put-down for any woman, especially a middle-aged woman, seen as too assertive.
I assume that if you’re black, you’re more likely to follow people on social media who post about racism then you will actually see it used in the specific anti-racism sense, and it’s understandable to feel that it’s useful to have a word to describe that behaviour.
For others they will never see it used in that way, despite seeing it frequently online, but only as a misogynistic put-down aimed at silencing women, including non-white women - in Twitter and Facebook comments, on neighbourhood forums, used in the classroom by teenagers about their teacher, etc.
So because of these different experiences, on this thread those who say ‘Karen’ is a misogynistic slur are accused of minimising racism, and those defending the term are accused of minimising misogyny. Total arguing at cross-purposes.

You keep talking about the evolution of the term Karen

are you not aware that different cultures, and the UK is a multi cultural country use different terms

so why should white culture decide for others what perfectly sums up a particular type of racist behaviour from women in their everyday life

unless of course you feel it’s your right to do this

Even with the (not quite accurate) origin around racism, Karen was a way to make white men killing black men all the women's fault. Don't talk about the racism in the police, don't talk about the US being trigger happy and gun control - witches, that's who we'll blame.

Was the movement "stop phoning the police on black people," no - the movement was "black lives matter," and it was police men who were actually killing them.

I've worked with 999 operators, people phone for all kinds of nonsense - pigeons in the house, parcel sent to the wrong address etc. it's the professionals that should know how to act appropriately and not shoot people over nothing, whatever their skin colour.

I expect there are considerably more men phoning emergency services to wank off to a female operatives voice, than women making spurious complaints about black men.

A "true" Karen is someone who has that name, surely

Anything else is name calling

Tell us your specific name for snooty and entitled men?

Or indeed the last time you used the word snooty for anyone in possession of a penis? I'm guessing never.

It's like bossy. It only means women.

What would you do if a teacher told your child off for using the term Karen and spoke to them about misogyny?

Would you want to complain? But hang on, you couldn't do that, you'd be a Karen

I think you'd implode

I am saying that there is a special kind of weaponised whiteness which is practiced by some women against Black/Brown women/people. People respond by attacking the response of black women/people whilst crying about misogny and minimising the scale of the damage caused by weaponised whiteness, twisting truth and spouting 'facts'. "Just call it racism"., hmm. No, thanks! While the behaviours persists, we will pick our own words without the assistance of perpetrators and their (intentional or unintentional) enablers.

Nobody is denying that some white women do as you say, and nobody is excusing that kind of behaviour.

We are objecting to the use of the term “Karen” in its current widespread use as meaning an uppity middle aged woman (of any colour) who should shut up, and we’re objecting to the use of a woman’s name to do that.

Some other posters seem to think that this objection, despite the context having nothing to do with race, is in itself racist, because the term was originally used to call out racists. And they don’t seem to mean that the use of the term is racist - they are saying the objection to it is racist.

It makes no sense.

For some reason I keep thinking of that cat my next door neighbour had. He was called Hector.

Not quite sure why....

Am I reading this right? That a woman who objects to the word Karen on misogynist grounds, is an enabler of racism?

Why is EVERYTHING women's fault?

I am certainly not shy. I choose not to share it. Its nowhere near as cathartic written. That's the point of of these 'terms' to help dimish pain/ trauma.

This shit is not histirical 'sins of the father' (as someone posted up thread) but real life experiences of Black / Brown people from before they are even born to death (lots of stats on this). Not 50 years ago, but now! I love that some of you can spend sooooo much time researching the origin word 'Karen' and none understanding what it means to be Black or Brown in 2023 or weaponised whiteness. Whilst the names fit, those who earn them, will be wearing them and, as a woman, I am ok with that. That's not misogyny, that's a survival technique. IMO, there is nothing more misogynistic than a woman weaponising their whiteness.

That'll be the 'White is Right' filter that your brain ran it through.

F-

Could do, much better.

How come racism gets 'called out' but complaining about misogyny is 'crying'?

This is some weapons grade sexist shite.

Oh come off it, it's not catharsis that is leading you not to share it

It's because if you posted on here that assertive white women are cunts or whatever trauma diminishing slur it is, you'd be rightly deleted.

Yes. You did read that right.

If MorrisZapp tells a group of white teenagers to pick up their chip wrappers, and they use her own name as an insult, she can’t object because that would be racist?

@Lndnmummy I must be thick because I don't understand

I abhor the use of the term "Karen". I really hate it

How does that make me an enabler of racism?

That's so funny, I grew up behind a chip shop and my mum used to tell off teenagers all the time!!

I'll remind her to check her white privilege. Stinky chip wrappers left on your doorstep are just keeping it real.

Thanks for suggesting the date related search. Here are two examples from 2014.

I have blocked out the usernames and one of the words in the meme for obvious reasons.

Yes because 2014 is what is relevant.