“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

Keith where I live, or Kevin.
I do dislike it as a term though.

Do try to keep up. Its not assertive women, nor is it all women. You are conflating two different things.

It's not your place to decide what is cathartic for me or any other black woman.

It's because if you posted on here that assertive white women are cunts or whatever trauma diminishing slur it is, you'd be rightly deleted.

As for my word, I don't use it to describe assertive white women who are not being racist or supporting racism. Not even for those I don't like or disagree with. Nothing I have written would even suggest that I would. I use it, and will continue to use it, for those that have earned it. It rolls off my tongue so delightfully that I fear that sharing it would sully it.

You are the only person linking assertive women to cunts. If that's the only word you can come up with, that's a YOU problem. Maybe I should add that word to my 'cathartic words' list . If I am sill using in in 10 years time, I will be sure to give you credit at the first person to come up with it. <<Makes note to do a screen grab to offer it up as time stamp and proof>>

I agree, different groups of people obviously use it in different ways and it means different things to them – same as with loads of words.

In cases where it’s used without any knowledge of its usage in describing racism or racist microaggressions or intent to do so (the more widespread usage nowadays) it’s my opinion that it functions as an expression of misogyny.

In those cases it’s a misogynistic term.

I don’t think this means its use within Black culture and other social groups to identify and discuss racist women needs to be challenged.

YOU keep up. Londonmummy has confirmed that a white woman asserting herself in her child's presence puts them in danger, and that a woman objecting to the use of Karen is enabling racism. I'm not conflating anything.

You write that and no doubt you think that is a summary of how mad/confused/insane/deluded I am.
And your buddies on here will most likely agree.

However, I read the above and think yes, that is exactly what I mean actually.

I have example after example of how 'white women asserting themselves' around my children have caused them danger.

And yes, I do think that people objecting to the term Karen being used are enabling racism.

🤷‍♀️

Blimey.

Aren’t you raising your children to be frightened of strong white women? Is it only meek ones you approve of?

Unless they're home schooled they're going to meet many assertive women! Education is primarily staffed by them. Some of them even shout, and impose punishment.

Would you be open to sharing some of these examples? I’d like to understand better

I understand the context of Lndnmummy's posts and what she means. I respect and admire the way she is protecting her family. She has shown herself to be an ally to black people, even in the face of hostility on MN.

Presenting something as if I have said or implied it only to change tack and say it was someone else. Nice. Is this the online version of 'you all look alike'? Was is difficult to tell us apart?

On this board? Absolutely not. If you genuinely are interested, and would like to 'understand better' you can approach me via PM and I would be happy to share.

I am raising them to protect themselves from behaviour of Karens. I am raising them
to be safe from harm. I am raising them to question white privilege and I am raising them to run a mile from white women weaponising their tears.

They are fortunate enough to know many strong women, both black and white who will role model what is right and what is wrong.

Do you have white female friends? Did you have some strong role models growing up?

Thanks, will pop you a message over.

Nope, it's not difficult to tell you apart. London's the one whose kids call her a Karen and you're the one with a secret slur for white women.

Seriously though - asking me was it difficult to tell you apart - it seems like you really want to make me out to be a racist? Why?

1. Yes
2. Yes.

And yes, I do think that people objecting to the term Karen being used are enabling racism.

If a woman objects to some white schoolchildren calling her a “Karen” how is this enabling racism?

@MorrisZapp if that question re "snooty" was aimed at me then yes I would use it for both male and female actually. I didn't give it a huge amount of thought but it fitted what I meant - that it is indeed true that some people of both sexes are of course capable of overbearing, superior attitudes.

It’s not. I’m showing @Nellodee that the original meaning of the word (racist white woman) predates the appropriated meaning of “woman who asserts herself”, despite what “evidence” her apparently thorough Google search and Saturday Night Lives skits may have shown. Nellodee was convinced I was lying but, shock horror, something black people use within our community was taken out of context by white audiences and used incorrectly. Like “woke”, “slay” and rock and roll music. But, again, I digress.

Slay is an old English word meaning to kill.
So by your logic, is it not the black ballroom community who originally took it out of context?

Words and their meanings/contexts evolve

@DoktorPeppa don’t be so obtuse. You know damn well what I’m talking about.

It’s a shame that, instead of getting defensive over this, white women on this thread can’t just acknowledge that when a black person is calling them a “Karen” it’s more likely that you’ve done some underhand racist shit as opposed to simply “being assertive”. By all means, call out the idiots and incels using Karen for every 40 year old white woman with a Bob haircut, but all I am asking you to do is be mindful of your own actions and how these can and do impact people with less privilege than you.

I think what you describe is actually what a Karen is

This is getting tedious.

We’re not talking about black people calling us “Karens”.

We’re talking about the pervasive use of the term “Karen” against middle aged women of all races with all kinds of haircuts when they do something like ask kids to put rubbish in bins, or complain that their food order is wrong. You can’t really be saying that this is underhand racist shit?

Two things can both be true:
that the ’anti-racist’ use of Karen describes real, problematic behaviour
that the vast majority of the time a woman is described as a Karen it has nothing to do with race

Well I’d have thought so too, but apparently not.