“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

No.
Protecting my children and other black family members from the behaviour of Karens is what is exhausting. The dynamics in our home is pretty much all the peace we get.

I think that children should be encouraged to understand that everyone including older woman have the right to highlight poor service, mis-deliveries, wrong orders etc.

That these are not dangerous acts focused solely on an individual but legitimate concerns that everyone including the child themselves should feel empowered to raise when appropriate.

Racist acts and behaviors should be clearly labeled as that and dealt with appropriately.
They are in no way linked to allowing woman or any other group of people to raise legitimate concerns.

What exactly do you perceive that you are protecting them from exactly though?

You've said that the mere presence of a white woman asserting herself in some way, even if nothing to do with your child, is a threat to them? HOW are they endangered?

You are exhausting yourself unnecessarily. The patriarchy has done a right number on you

Well quite. Hypothetical situation. I’m in the pub with my dogs. LDNmummy is in the pub with her children. We don’t interact.

A random child comes to my dogs and insists on playing with them. I say No, please let them rest, they have had a long walk and don’t feel like it. Random child persists. Random child’s mother can’t be arsed to tell her child to leave my dogs alone. I lose my shit at said mother and very assertively make my feelings known.

Just how does this endanger Ldnmummy’s children?

Can you not understand Ldnmummy’s posts

its quite clear she absolutely would be there telling her children how to behave

because her children will be judged more harshly than if her children were white

and sadly too often they will also be on receiving end of underhand racism no one especially a child should have to deal with

No, it’s you who doesn’t understand.

There is no suggestion whatsoever that her children don’t behave.

Where did you get that?

You said random child ignores what you have asked them in regard to not petting your dog

Yes. I never say it’s Mummy’s child, hence random.

Thank you 🫶🏻

I think that this poster was wondering why her being assertive to another child in the presence of London's children would be damaging for London's children.

I'm not sure if London only has an issue with women being assertive directly towards her children or simply around her children.

I think London made it quite clear that she has an issue with her children being in the mere vicinity of a white woman asserting herself

I did read that wrong I apologise

i would imagine Ldnmummy would be thinking that woman (white) losing her temper I need to keep my child/children away because I don’t want my child being on the end of racism too she doesn’t know if you are or are not racist

I don’t have to think that at all but I do pick up of underhand racism towards my lovely dad he is in his 80’s and I can’t tell you how upsetting and angry it makes me feel. He knows he is old he cba anymore to get upset and that hurts even more

I have quite clearly, repeatedly, said what I have an issue with. My issue is with the behaviour of Karens.

The behaviour of Karens are damaging to people who are not white.

Of course, I also have an issue with racist men. I have said so 3-4 times on this thread. I have also said that in my house we call them Johns.

I will never forget the indignity of a woman on here a couple of years ago when she had been called a Karen by a black man in the park. Pearl clutching and blushing at how dare they!! And the man was ever so aggressive 🙄. Turns out she had been shouting at an autistic little black girl because she had jumped in a puddle and splashed the OP and her dog.

That thread left a huge scar on my soul. People were more aghast that the girls daddy had called her a Karen than the fact that she had abused a disabled little girl.

This is where we are at. I can not get worked up about the 'misoginy' over this term when the behaviour of the Karen is the real issue.

As white women we are privileged if the indignity and dislike of this term is what we are discussing. It is all theoretical. Like @ChardonnaysBeastlyCat hypothetical scenarios.

My scenarios, with my children, are real. We meet
Karens most days. In real life. Interactions that have real physical and emotional ramifications. And I am not even black. I 'only' experience it through my children and other family. I am under no illusion that I suffer far far less than a black woman.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat my kids would never ever touch your dogs (who in my opinion absolutely should not be in places where people pay to eat). Let's save that for another thread.
I have had enough for today.

I think the problem on this thread is that some non white posters experience this sort of underhand racism (including of course from middle aged white women) and quite rightly want to call it out. Why should they put up with that crap?

On the other hand, white posters are well used to eg white boys and men just using it as an ageist and misogynistic insult. Quite rightly they also want to call that out. Why should they have to put up with that crap?

I agree racism, whether underhand or not should be called out. I just think using a term of abuse that white women generally experience as ageist misogyny from white males is not effective and that it is a shame women can’t see the misogyny. I mean just go on the internet and look at the memes. I know it was once used to call out racism, but it’s morphed into a general insult/takedown to middle aged women.

Big love to your Dad🫶🏻

Reading comprehension doesn’t seem to be your strong suit.

I have never suggested anything about your children touching my dogs.

Thank you Lndnmummy it’s not fair what you children and family have to deal with, what you have to worry about and to think children have to be aware in such a way is shameful in our society

Why would she think that her child will be at the receiving end of anything? The world does not revolve around her child, or anyone else’s child.

And what’s that to do with your dad? Old it not?

I was talking about this recently to several female friends. It’s a horrible misogynistic term. Ageist and insulting.

Interesting isn't it how easily she misinterpreted what she read, to fit her narrative

Yeah.

Funny that.

And she never answered my question. Not that I thought she would.

How come the whole community need a term for Karen's but it's only your house that uses John?

I'm polite but assertive. I once politely asked an entire busful of people to move up so that others could get on. Is this the type of Karen behaviour that makes you and your kids fearful?

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat it’s a shame you can’t show empathy or even want to try. Most peoples reaction to a mother worrying about her children possibly being subjected to racism because she knows it happens or having to be so hyper aware to this or that a poster describing how their lovely dad who is in his 80’s still is in on the receiving end of racism is one of disgust and/or sadness

but that’s not so unusual on MN thankfully there are many on here that do