“Karen” is a misogynist term.

[Bleuuuughhh]

i just would like to get an idea of how other women feel about this term.

It seems deeply unfair there is no equivalent term for badly behaved men. In my eyes, the phase appears to be a new insult to add the huge list women have had add to put up with through the ages.

Women being sexually active is now more acceptable so the terms “Jezebel”, “slag” are not used as widely. Similarly there is an aging population “crone” and “witch” aren’t acceptable . Now a woman who complains, or doesn’t tow the party time is called a “Karen”.

Has anything really actually changed at all?

It's an absolute because it's a word aimed solely at women. If it were really to do with racism, and only racism, the word would be one for both men and women. Karen is a misogynist insult first and foremost, always has been. You can bet your life that it wasn't a woman who made up the term.

Not read the whole thread. To those white women who are trying to school Black women how on how mysognistic/offensive the term 'Karen' is. Many Black women live in world where many White women are just as much a threat as men. Therefore, your opinion being counted on this term makes as much sense as allowing men and/ or rapists a deciding vote on whether a victim of such an assault can use the word 'animal' to describe their abuser.

Are we allowed to object to the word being used to put down uppity middle aged women who have an opinion?

@DoktorPeppa at this point I’m going to assume you haven’t RTFT, because it’s been explained in great detail why it’s not just blanket “racism, and only racism”.

@IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism of course, so long as you can understand and acknowledge when it’s being used for a real purpose and when it’s some bullshit. The issue is so many women only know it’s recent usage and therefore ignore incidents of it being used appropriately.

This is an occasion where black people have appropriated a term already being used by sexist wankers. Maybe if you wanted to highlight racism, it might be a much better idea to not use a term already preloaded with misogyny?

Apparently it does not matter how many times someone provides evidence that Karen was a sexist meme long before it was used to call out racism.

Incidentally, the first racially loaded usage was on Saturday Night Live when Karen brought potato salad to a black persons barbecue, not following the park incident, so was originally poking fun at white peoples for getting things wrong, not for being racist at all. Karen just can’t do anything right.

If that's the level you are operating at, I suspect you need more help than I can give.

Whatever the origins it's now being used for any woman who steps out of line.

And I've heard it most often from white men online.

In this case what does that mean do you think?

Just because people have explained what they believe in great detail doesn't mean I have to agree. Karen is misogynistic first and foremost and I will never be convinced otherwise.

My last comment was to @IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism

Did you have a straight face when you talked about black people 'appropriating' the term?

@Nellodee

It’s not a ‘term’, it’s the given name of many women in their 40s and 50s (including at least three of my friends) and I absolutely hate the misogynistic use of it for that reason. I don’t care how it started - I called someone out on using it and the answer was ‘well what else am I supposed to call them.’ How about racist?

I don’t think I’ve misused the term.
Taking a misogynist slur, deciding it is now a legitimate and meaningful criticism of racism, then complaining when people decry the slur because of its original meaning - that’s what has happened here.

The racist meaning didn’t just evolve in isolation from the original version, it grew out of it. You can track it. And the original meaning is still there. Claiming Karen is primarily a term to call out racism is absolutely appropriation.

And who WANTS to appropriate a sexist slur, for fuck’s sake? Why, when the original meaning was pointed out repeatedly, wouldn’t anyone just think, “I’ll not use that name, it’s sexist and offensive.” No-one is saying racism doesn’t exist. But you don’t need to buy into blatantly misogynist crap to fight against it.

once again the lack of self awareness on mn

white women telling black and Asian women they shouldn’t use a term, it’s appropriation and my god advice on how to call out underhand racism when you have been told by people who experience a particular type of racism from women that it can’t just be called out

and as for the claim that many people in the 50’s and younger are not racist I can tell you that is absolute nonsense I live in south London my family my friends face racism often daily and it’s not only from older people look at the police ffs

Whatever its origins it is basically an ' OK boomer' put down now. Difficult to respond to , in the same way as being called 'chippy' by some middle class wanker.

Resenting being called 'chippy ' is of course evidence of how chippy one is.

Women are allowed to tell people to stop being sexist. Black peoples are allowed to tell people to stop being racist. How about if I call people out for being sexist without using any racial slurs, you call people out for being racist without using any sexist slurs? Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.

Imagine taking a name, let’s say Jerome. Then making repeated negative connotations about that name.
Jerome is stupid, Jerome is naughty, Jerome has chav parents, Jerome’s parents are drug dealers and thieves. Jerome will not amount to much. Urgh stfu Jerome- said to any young black male who you happen to disagree with.
Yeah shut up Jerome echo all those joining in.
Nice isn’t it.
Oh but it’s ok cos originally ‘Jerome’ was used to describe a naughty, chavvy boy who had awful parents and couldn’t behave at school……..

That's it though.

Why fight racism with misogyny? Doesn't that tarnish your fight?

White women (not all) AND Misogyny are the twin evils that black women face.

So why resort to misogyny? How does that make things better for anyone?

Here is a stunning example of full on misogyny. From a woman who would 100% call herself a feminist and repeatedly talks about women supporting women. There's no element of race here. It's just "shut up, women".

The term “Karen” is now commonly used against middle aged women, of any race or colour, who stand up for themselves. This is not a matter for debate - it’s all over SM.

Are you seriously suggesting that I (and the OP, and many other posters) are not allowed to object to this usage?

Well, we certainly agree about one thing.