Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

[Fruitcakesanddogs]

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

Thank you to the parents being honest about how you're feeling you need to rectify things now. Very brave.

My two are now late teens. The 3 of their peers I can think of who were gently parented have all turned out to be teens I don't enjoy spending time with. Too obnoxious. Too annoying. Too much thinking that the world revolves around them. Parents always looking tired and haggard too. Not a great look for 16+ years.

All I will say, and I recognise myself and my dc1 a lot in what you're saying, is, don't forget you're the leader here and your ds needs you to be this leader. You are not equals, you must shoe him the way. You'll decide whether buggy or car, you decide when to leave based on what suits you. Lots of chatting, preparing, acknowledging etc along the way. I was a more confident leader the second time round and everything was all round easier, and I still didn't do time outs or shouting etc. DC1 can still find it hard at times to hear no and will negotiate like a diplomat but we have a super close relationship and he is a great boy. Janet Lansbury is good on being the confident leader he needs.

OK, I do put them in the buggy if I need them to be in there. If I don't need them to be in there, then I would be happy to let them choose whether to go in or not.

I did have to learn to centre my own needs a bit, because if you keep skirting around what you really need (e.g. to get home before you get really hungry/cold/narky) in order to avoid upsetting your toddler then you'll end up damaging your relationship. This definitely happened with me and although I said I have a nice relationship with DS1 now, there was a period in the middle where it was really rocky and I have huge guilt/regret about this.

I do think that if you don't get your head around the confident leader role by the time they are about 3/4, and keep relying on tactics like just waiting for him to lose interest in something before you leave a shop, you set yourself up for a scenario that I absolutely did and I think is not completely unheard of in gentle parenting circles, because this kind of skirting around, not actually enforcing boundaries, waiting for distraction to do it for you stops working as soon as their attention span and understanding increases just enough that they know what you're doing, because at that point they start to push it on purpose. I think it's partially out of curiosity, but it's also about feeling secure, like that testing the rollercoaster safety analogy. I found Janet Lansbury very helpful with this, she has a nice balance IMO between being gentle and respectful towards the child, but not being a slave to their every whim and being a pushover. There are a lot of gentle parenting resources which just go "blah blah obviously you must also have boundaries!" but don't really explain what that actually looks like, whereas she does IME.

Two more analogies which helped me with boundaries are thinking about a job where you have a boss who is really wishy washy and just says "Oh don't worry, do whatever you want to do!" Sounds great, but also, confusing? When I'm in a position where I know that there are things I'm supposed to be doing, it's helpful to have some direction from someone more experienced. A boss who has inspiring ideas and gives clear instructions but ALSO is empathetic and listens to me would basically be the perfect boss - and I think about that in parenting.

The last one for me is about framing my role as being responsible for them (which, obviously, but it helps me when I know that I need to push something and I really don't want to/am dreading the conflict). So for example I say something like "It's my job to keep you healthy, and brushing your teeth is something that keeps you healthy, so I have to make sure that your teeth get cleaned." (Either to myself, or directly to the child).

Gentle parenting is great but don't get too caught up in social media parenting. The How To Talk books are great and practical. If you're averse to conflict in general, this might be something to explore, preferably before your child turns 3, or you're likely to struggle with the next stage. Toddlers (1-3 ish) are brilliant and funny and cute and unpredictable, but 3-7 (especially 4/5) can be a bit of a battle of wills, even (especially?) if you're trying your hardest never to engage in the battle.

Lastly I think there is a huge amount of value in simply setting up their expectations - so for example, I never used to get DS1 dressed unless we were literally going out right this second. I thought that it was a waste of a battle because he didn't want to and I didn't need him to so why would I bother. DS2 came along and DH got him dressed every single day and I thought he was mad - but actually, him having developed that expectation made such a huge difference. There is this theory in gentle parenting that if you let them do what they want the majority of the time and just make them do things occasionally when you absolutely have to, then they will be willing and cooperative because they understand that it's really important this time. This is just completely false IME, if you have some kind of "norm" in your head (like getting dressed) and you think you're letting them off that norm all the time to be fun, they don't experience it the same way you do. They think that it's normal not to get dressed and when you try to insist on it they fight it because it's a weird, abnormal, uncomfortable thing to do. You have to establish the boring normal in order for letting them off the normal thing to BE an exception and therefore be fun.

With all due respect, OP, your child isn't even two yet. He's still a baby and the proper toddler years have barely started. My eldest started refusing to wear clothes at two. Obviously we had battles because she needed to wear clothes. What I'm saying is that he hasn't had any majorly obstructive behaviour yet, but trust me, it will happen and then you will have to lay down the law.

OP I only have one child so I'm no expert. But you mention your child is not yet 2. For me it was 2+ (and more like 2.5+) when I really needed to start being stricter and setting boundaries. Before that my child was naturally pretty well-behaved (shy so not one to run wild etc). So all I'd say is be open to the fact you might need to change your approach as your child enters the often tricky 2-3yr stage.

Laid back parenting, or lazy parenting? You are teaching your child nothing if you do not set certain boundaries for him to recognize. All of us have to live with certain rules, it’s going to be one heck of a lot easier for your child if he understands this early on. In one respect ‘laid back’ thing sounds ideal, but the reality of it as well as the consequences of it are
very very different. My children never went to the supermarket without sitting in the child seat on the trolley, ditto if we were out they were in the buggy, I started from day one, it was natural for them, just as fastening them into car seats and so many other things. You are his first teacher, help him, teach him.

They'll come a day when he picks something up and refuses to put it down, what do you plan on doing then? Or when he decides he's not putting clothes on or going to nursery/school

Your child is 2!! The problem comes when they start school and are still like that. Age 2 they know so little and being kind and gentle at that age is what most parents do surely.

A friend of mine allowed this with her child. He was (and still is) the rudest, most obnoxious and irritating child that I've ever known. She had nothing but problems with him when he started school because none of the staff could do anything with him as he'd had no boundaries, and zero respect for adults (especially his mother) She absolutely made a rod for her own back.

So in the example you give that he doesn't understand that you want him to put the dinosaur back because it is time to go, you can definitely teach this.

Most children from around 18m+ can start to understand (very) simple instructions when they are in the right mood and are focused. So for example when playing at home "Put it in this bucket. Yay well done! You did it!" Keep language very simple and combine with body language (e.g. pointing at the bucket, tilting the bucket towards him).

It is very useful to teach them some kind of phrase for "Give that to me please" or "Put that down" because sometimes they will get hold of something dangerous, and it's safer if they will drop it/hand it to you on cue than if you have to wrestle it out of their hand or just hope that they drop it ASAP. For example, I heard an awful story about a friend of a friend's child who picked up a butter knife at a picnic and would not drop it, so they pulled it out of her hand, which caused it to cut her skin.

Also, needing to give something up because for example it is dangerous, or he might cause damage to the object, or it does not belong to him, is a totally different scenario to having a toy snatched away at playgroup. Don't treat them as one and the same - one way that they learn language at his age is by having actions narrated. So for example "It's time to go now. We need to put the elephant back. Bye bye elephant." Said gently and calmly while taking it out of his hand and putting it back in the box. You can then absolutely be empathetic if he is upset. But you won't help him learn how to leave appropriately by waiting around for him to want to do it. That said, it's not like every single moment has to be a teaching moment. Sometimes you can just wait. But I would definitely bear in mind that it's really OK for him to be disappointed about leaving AND it's OK for you to have made the decision and stuck to it. Avoiding this kind of thing too much makes it harder for him to do it when you really need him to.

I would never use the word feral but DH always jokes that the kids are 'Free Range' and I've always been pretty relaxed as a parent. No absolute set bed times, feeding times although we fell into something of a natural pattern once nursery/school started - the kids went to bed when they got tired - it just wasn't something I got particularly get up about. Same with eating - they were good, then fussy, then good again as they got older.

I encouraged independence and imagination/creativity and support schoolwork but it's not the be all and end all - we never did Primary school homework...

DD is polite, respectful, hardworking and very sensible! Now 16, she often tells me I'm too relaxed ☺️

DS is 12 and still a bit too fussy on the eating which is annoying at times but he'll be alright at some point I'm sure. He's a bit more on the

A friend and her DH botj passive types but v smart lawyers

Totally gave in to 3 sons. Ie gamed non stop during covid, allows 10y old not to go to school (dont wake him up), 14y old drinks and passes put on benches. allowed kids to stop all clubs qt 7-8 for no reason (so kide got fat and gamed more). never made to do anything

Eldest failed gcse's and is meant to be at college but never goes. Theyve accepted the sons will be dossers.

Shocking when Id guess parents are top 5-% intelligence themselves. They drink a-lot just never could be bothered really.

I remember cousins being like this when they were younger and they all, especially the eldest, talk to my aunt like absolute shit now.

I love them but they’re very loud and boisterous still as 20 something year old men.

I agree with @BertieBotts - it’s good to start teaching them to put things back and if fuss is made, well yes, they don’t understand that they can’t have everything they want yet so it’s understandable that they would be annoyed/upset. But with a 2 year old a simple “I see you’re feeling upset about leaving the toy. I can understand that, it was a nice toy. Anyway, where are we off to now? Yes, we’re off home for some lunch” and then chat away until they forget about the toy or at least realise they aren’t getting the toy.

Not nearly as upsetting as him running in front of a car or wandering off in a busy town centre though

My friend- who had her son in the US where they lived until he was 5- did this. Then she moved here with him- he was like a rampaging terror. He was so badly behaved! It just got worse as he got older- she never said no to him and when she tried he took no notice. No boundaries or consequences. Just did as he liked. He went to a local private school and they asked him to leave in Y10 because he was so unco-operative. Not horrible, just unco-operative, as if no expectations should apply to him, even very reasonable ones.
He then went to an excellent local high school for the rest of Y10 and 11 but only attended at most 2 days a week.Still got decent GCSE outcomes - all 6+. He is very bright, can be very charming but is feral. He was out of the house from end of school day until 2 or 3 am, often in a local wooded dene with groups of druggie kids. He stole from her then she gave him her debit card at one point and he went off ordering takeaways for him and all his friends, taxis all over the place, buying clothes. He's now back in US with his dad- who is wealthy, elderly and ill and can't look after him. He's living the high life in LA with a 'cool' gang of friends, doing nothing except spend his dad's money on drugs and drink. Now 20, spends his time skateboarding. Never contacts his mum back in England. He has no sense of 'regulation' in anything.

My friend is quite relaxed with her son and he's the most polite lovely child
But she says herself she treats him (in a nice way!) as one of the dogs - loads of exercise/walks/outdoor stuff, routine and boundaries
It's hard to describe but she's always kind of treated him as an adult and if she has stuff to do and he has to go with her then that's what it is and he has to behave

We basically let our kids do what they liked - we were benign neglect (and financially poor) parents. Now they are young adults they talk about their ‘idyllic’ free-flow childhood and have all been high flyers and done well socially and educationally.

BUT we were absolutely strict AF about behaviour and respecting other people in public. Because that’s what is civilised and the right thing to do.

Very few people like being around unruly, loud, untethered young children and they (and everybody actually) need to know that the rest of world isn’t necessarily interested or enamoured of their free expression.

Feral at home is fine. Living respectfully in public teaches them valuable lessons of restraint, resilience and relationships.

It's an interesting one. I am quite easygoing to a point. I have many friends like you (quite a hippy part of the world);which was ok when they were little.
However when they had their second child it was awfully. Poor first born was used to getting their choice in everything and then all of a sudden baby appears. Who then gets priority?hard all round. Poor kid is suddenly competing with a needy baby. Creates terrible rivalry.
Alternatively no sibling and the kid hits school with no competition. Suddenly 30 kids are as important as them. Tough gig
Or they are home schooled and the big wide world is the next step with no competition. Even tougher.
Many kids around here who are like that.
My eldest is 18 and has mates in all scenarios. Who we have seen through the years and some are fabulous and confident, creative young people but many are anxious or struggle to fit into normal life.
My observation is kids like rules to a point. Makes them secure and confident.
This sort of parenting is quite indulgent and selfish often.

I completely agree with this approach. We did similar. Benign neglect with lots of love at home and in safe spaces. With strict, how to behave in society so you arent a little shit is important to not turn into an unlikable member of the world.

Interesting thread OP!

It sounds like you're still working out how many/ which boundaries to teach your child is that right?

I have gentle kids that I didn't reign in very much and they turned out great so far. But these gentle souls never felt the urge for example to sing at the top of their lungs on a busy London bus or run climb around the seats on said bus. Would you let your DS go nuts on a bus?

I have one feisty DC who needed to reigning in sometimes in these situations. This DC also can't be as noisy as they'd like in the house as there's others who are more sensitive to noise.

Re the buggy, for us there wasn't a choice, feisty child had to go in as I had to take all of them to nursery.

But it sounds like you don't live in a big city and have nowhere to be (yet) with your son and he is also very young still. So having said all that I think you might consider some boundaries in the future?

What do you do at bedtime? Hopefully your DC is a great sleeper?
Mealtimes?

I had to laugh what one PP said as I say the same thing to my kids: "it's my job to put you to bed and make sure you get enough sleep. The end."

I'm also honestly curious how you keep cool when shop folks give you the side eye? I wish I wouldn't give a F sometimes! But when they eye my potentially grubby kid manhandling items we haven't paid for I do lose my nerve!

If you mean getting dirty or shouting in nature of course they should do that and I don't care what any person hiking by thinks. What do you do though when they pull out the rare plants for example or want to trample round a nest?

One evening we were sitting outside at a bus stop and one of my (gentle) DCs and her friend were screeching at the TOP of their lungs. It was LOUD. A lady standing nearby asked us to calmly to keep our kids quiet because she had a long day and a headache. I'd have obliged tbh but DC friend's dad refused to tell his DC to be quiet outdoors and that the lady should sod off basically. This made me take note.

I think there's a fine line between letting your child take up space and being heard in the world and teaching them what is socially acceptable and considerate - and it's tricky to navigate sometimes.

Probably have issues with boundries and authority at a guess.

Perhaps they very often are said to have ADHD, Hyeractivity, emotional and behavioural problems and other associated disorders. - I said perhaps. 🙃

4 kids from the same family. All adults now. 2 are in jail, 1 is dead due to thinking they could do whatever they wanted and the other is a drug addict

When my little one does this (the stiff body thing in protest), I call it a “tantrum”. 😂 Sorry OP. It comes from me doing something you said you also do - carrying her when very young when she cried in her pram. Boundaries in some shape or form are important from quite young imo.

I pushed my two DC into their seats more than once, and they're normal, well-adjusted adults. Allowing children to be feral is lazy, not gentle parenting, and it does not turn out well.