Do we actually know who bombed the hospital in Gaza yet?

[Ididivfama]

I keep seeing mixed reports. It’s really unsettling not to know.

I have used my reasoning, last time I checked the death toll was at 3300, roughly double what the Hamas insurgency caused. Why is one a genocide and the other not?

If Hamas resigns, something else will just take it's place. Sadly.

You're probably right. I think until Israel's right to exist is recognised by other countries in the region, and they stop funding terrorism, this will just rinse and repeat.

This is one of my main points. As far as I can tell there is only one thing the Arab nations want and it's not a 2 state solution.

So every time Israel is attacked, they have to react like their existence depends on it.

The problem with have with useful idiots in the West and the rest of the world is that their attitude only prolongs the war. Imagine if all those anti-Israel voices put pressure on the Arab states to come to a peaceful solution.

Supporting Gaza, although well intentioned on the face of it and being against Israel only adds to the never ending war.

Am I the only one that can see this?

*The problem with have with useful idiots in the West and the rest of the world is that their attitude only prolongs the war. Imagine if all those anti-Israel voices put pressure on the Arab states to come to a peaceful solution.

Supporting Gaza, although well intentioned on the face of it and being against Israel only adds to the never ending war.

Am I the only one that can see this?*

No absolutely not. This is the same conclusion I've drawn.

The bigger the anti-Israel movement is, the more threatened and beleaguered they feel, the more hair-strigger and reactive they are, the more restrictions they place on the West Bank, the more they blockade Gaza and the more people die. Nothing changes.

Just critisising Israel, I'm genuinely not sure what outcome people wish for? The country to cease existing?

FreeCoathangers

Why is one a genocide and the other not?

Kindly point to where I've said that Hamas's brutal, depraved brutality wasn't genocidal.

Just critisising Israel, I'm genuinely not sure what outcome people wish for? The country to cease existing?

Why would you jump to such an extreme conclusion? It is absurd to think that people who object to Israels treatment if the Palestinians want Isreal to cease existing. Personally I would like them to start treating Palestinians like people, like their equals, instead of 'human animals'. That would be a great starting point.

Thanks for clarifying that

To progress the argument you need to start adding in things like

Personally I would like to see the Arab nations start treating Palestinians like people, like their equals, instead of 'human animals'

Look, it's a terrible analogy and I apologise to anyone who may be offended, but the Arab nations look on the Palestinians as people in the UK look on travellers.

I implore you to do so reading and you'll soon realise that the Arabs nations don't are about them.

FreeCoathangers · Today 14:02

Thanks for clarifying that

Have you misunderstood me? I've posted on a number of these threads that Hamas are brutal, sadistic murderers.

I've only been on this thread 99% of the time to be fair, it seems decent and people aren't rude for the sake of making a political point, nor the is the word genocide bandied around.

Right now I am concerned about the people who are losing 1 child every 15mins to be honest. Israel are doing just fine with the US and the UK in kahoots with them. Israel have the power, they have done for years, committing a genocide with Nakba, stealing peoples land, stealing peoples homes, locking them up, now bombing the shit out them and then saying but why don't they like us is a pointless exercise. They have been treated like shit for years, who loves their oppressor? Start giving respect, start treating them like people and go from there.

I should also add get rid of the illegal settlements and apologise unreservedly for ever thinking you had a right to take them.

<sighs> they tried to do that when the left Gaza in 2005.

Are you going to lay a single iota of blame at any of the Arabs states for any of the Palestinian suffering?

"I should also add get right of the illegal settlements and apologise unreservedly for ever thinking you had a right to take them"

You're addressing that to Israel, not me, right?

The word genocide is being bandied around in newspapers currently, by columnists and international law practicioners. The fact is that, whilst most people think of it as near extermination, it can involve relatively few deaths.

Other facets are the expulsion of a group from their territory and especially replacing them with people from the side doing the expulsion.

Seriously, it's all available online, from reputable sources.

Why would you jump to such an extreme conclusion? It is absurd to think that people who object to Israels treatment if the Palestinians want Isreal to cease existing. Personally I would like them to start treating Palestinians like people, like their equals, instead of 'human animals'. That would be a great starting point.

What would that look like in practice?
There was actually a slight easing of tension with Gaza over the last couple of years then the attack happened.

How do you suggest for instance that Israel ease off on the blockade of Gaza with Hamas still in charge there?

"Be nice to Palestinians" is a great ideal but what are the practical steps given the current realities?

How have they done that when they still control Gaza?

What? Of course.

Right now I am concerned about the people who are losing 1 child every 15mins to be honest. Israel are doing just fine with the US and the UK in kahoots with them. Israel have the power, they have done for years, committing a genocide with Nakba, stealing peoples land, stealing peoples homes, locking them up, now bombing the shit out them and then saying but why don't they like us is a pointless exercise. They have been treated like shit for years, who loves their oppressor? Start giving respect, start treating them like people and go from there.

I don't see how they even get to that start point until the aren't dealing with Hamas in Gaza though.

And honestly the more people bring up historical injustices, the less people living in the present are going to see a resolution to this issue. It's done, Israel is here, and how on earth are they meant to deal with their next door neighbours if said neighbours are trying to kill them?

Until the 7th of October I'd have thought that was an exaggeration and an excuse but then Hamas made it quite clear that the last two years of greater calm was just a ploy to commit a massive atrocity.
So where's the start point with that in mind?

The word genocide is being bandied around in newspapers currently, by columnists and international law practicioners. The fact is that, whilst most people think of it as near extermination, it can involve relatively few deaths.

Great, so now we've changed the meaning of genocide and now we can freely use it at Israel like a bunch of raving lunatics. You seem desperate to be able to want to class the 3300 deaths in this latest conflict as genocide. Well done.

Start by getting rid of the illegal settlements. Give control of the West Bank to Palestinains. No more stupid rules like ask for permission to collect rainwater. Palestinians can decide what is best for them. Start small. Start letting farmers farm their land in Gaza in without shooting at them. Build up the trust that they have eroded away with years of oppression.

There is no way Israel can ever have any dialoge with Hamas now after what happened. That's finished. So the only way to have a start point now is now more Hamas.

Build up the trust that they have eroded away with years of oppression

There never was any trust on either side to erode. What trust?

I'm taking a break from the thread. Will check in this evening. Try and stay respectful everyone, this is one of the few threads to make it.

@SomeCatFromJapan

Totally agree. There are two armies in this conflict and two states. One aggressively invaded the other and people can only see the wrongs done by Israel.

i don’t agree with Israel’s tactics but I also can’t see how they can back out now without leaving themselves open to further invasions from Hamas.

What ever way you want to phrase it the oppressor needs to make the first move. You can't expect that of people who have been locked up and treated like 'human animals', most of them for their entire existence.