Do we actually know who bombed the hospital in Gaza yet?

[Ididivfama]

I keep seeing mixed reports. It’s really unsettling not to know.

And what do you think is the result of the completely heavy handed and abusive approach regarding kids throwing stones? Trauma, radicalisation, hatred of Israeli forces, and more recruits to Hamas.

And there you go again. We see you 👀

Or you could say that that the take the well documented radicalisation from their schools out onto the streets.

<waves>

You really need to read up on some history. There were pogroms in Palestine in 1929. Later on, the Nazis stirred up anti-Jewish settlement among Arabs and there were pogroms in Farhud, Aleppo, Tripoli and Cairo. Amin al-Husseini was on very good terms with Hitler.

Whether Hamas care or not os besides the point. Humanitarian aid for ordinary people is needed, and Israel have been preventing this.

I think it shows your naivety though if you think people can be easily separated into hamas and not hamas. Hamas will be where the people are because they aren't a self contained group that exist in a vacuum. Many will have families etc and will be moving with them. Do you give bread to the wife and children, but not the husband because he works for Hamas? How do you stop her giving him his share at home? How do you verify who is going to receive if people share rations etc?

@FreeCoathangers of course I wouldn't. But so you're now blaming the parents and justifying the torture, beating, deprivation and imprisonment of children?

If a UK soldier or police officer shot, arrested and beat and tortured your kid that had thrown a stone at him would that be ok? Then your kid is sent to prison for 20 years?

Poor argument.

Honestly, I'm not the naive one on this thread.

Yes, you've made a poor argument there. You're also conflating a 20 year sentence with throwing a stone. The vast majority of kids are processed and returned.

The people that Barr the responsibility for child soldiers are their parents and the people who brainwash them into taking part in warfare at a young age.

It is increasing impossible to separate legitimate soldiers from radicalised guérilla fighters. Because they are recruited young and are essentially still part of the civilian population. Violence has been taught as holy and the duty of all proud Palestinians. How do you undo that training?

What is obvious is that you cannot leave it up to Hamas. They have had decades to sort out the infrastructure in Gaza and have done nothing but harass, indoctrinate and plot. Should Israël leave them to continue that?

What is the right call here? Hamas use schools as bunkers and dig munitions dumps next to hospitals and don’t seem to care about accidentally killing their own people. How can you bargain with a group of people like that?

Some people have gone out of their way to disbelieve any suggestion that Hamas or Islamic Jihad may be responsible for the explosion at the hospital.

I'm not saying they are all imprisoned for 20 years, but there is a chance of it happening.

I'm making a point that it's not ok to treat children like this, regardless of possible sentence that's imposed or not.

"The study said 86 percent of the 228 former child detainees surveyed were beaten in detention, and 69 percent were strip-searched, adding that 42 percent were injured at the point of arrest, including gunshot wounds and broken bones. They were also interrogated at unknown locations without the presence of a guardian or caregiver and are often deprived of food, water and sleep, the report says. In addition, they were often refused access to legal counsel, according to the research."

Funny you should say that. I was just reading an article yesterday about how Israeli children are indoctrinated against Arabs.

A 2003 study of Israeli textbooks by the Hebrew University in Jerusalem showed Arabs are principally depicted as 'with a camel, in Ali Baba dress. They describe Arabs as vile and deviant and criminal, people who don't pay taxes, people who live off the state, people who don't want to develop. The only representation is as a refugee, primitive farmers and terrorists. You never see a Palestinian child or doctor or teacher or engineer or modern farmer,' the study said.

In 2002 during the second intifada a Tel Aviv newspaper published a letter by Israeli children titled 'Dear soldiers, please kill lots of Arabs'. The paper said they received dozens of these letters. Some of those same children are now enforcing occupation the West Bank and some will be headed into Gaza.

Opinion polls show that significant numbers of Israelis view Arabs as 'dirty' and 'primitive' and not valuing human life.

This all tracks with Israels defence minister calling them 'human animals'. A prominent Israeli journalist saying 'We need a disproportionate response. If all captives are not returned immediately, turn the stip into a slaughterhouse.'

Yes, I get it, Israel bad.

Rafah crossing is opening tomorrow for aid to go through. It seems that as much as Egypt said it was open it was actually closed from both sides.

Deliveries begin again tomorrow morning on the proviso that Hamas don’t divert them to supply fighter. Let’s see what happens.

Here’s the information from the Guardian

Do you see how this goes?

Yeah, I see that it goes both ways. Except one side is locked up on a small strip of land totally controlled by Israel or in the West Bank having their homes taken from them by force and being shot at. The other side is a thriving modern democracy apparently.

@Gruntsandgroans

It didn’t have to be that way. Who was it that forced it to this point?

A child who has seen his whole family wiped out will grow up to hate the people that did it of course they will .
The total bombardment of gaza is a revenge it does nothing to eradicate hamas or bring back hostages and if you cannot see that you are the one who is radicalised .

I honestly believe that two sides could live in peace if there was a will for it but at the end of the day, the Arab nations don't want a two state solution, they just want a Palestinian state that replaces Israel.

A never ending war is the result, with the people of Gaza and to a lesser extent, the people of the West Bank becoming martyrs for the "cause"

@FreeCoathangers
Well the israeli ambassador does not believe in two state solution
Using your argument that Gaza people put hamas in power so therefore they are somehow responsible for hamas actions
Israeli current government is very hard line

Israeli ambasaador to the uk has said this herself

She has described herself as “a religious rightwinger” and rejects Palestinian claims to any part of the West Bank, Gaza or East Jerusalem. In a speech in 2015, she said Israel had tried too hard to appease the world. “This land is ours. All of it is ours. We did not come here to apologise for that.”

2 State solutions has been offered 6 times previously to the Arabs. All of them refused.

Thats not my argument
Are Israelis not responsible for their government the same way Gazans are for hamas ?
She said nakba is a very popular arab lie ! She opposes marriages between jews and non jews is she not radical religious extremist ?

I honestly don't understand your point, there are radicals on both sides.