Do we actually know who bombed the hospital in Gaza yet?

[Ididivfama]

I keep seeing mixed reports. It’s really unsettling not to know.

Hamas have 30,000 fighters in Gaza. This is going to get worse before it gets better.

This is why you have to take all Hamas civilian death toll declarations with a pinch of salt. They will report 2,900 people killed, including 900 children. But will have left out that a large proportion of the adults were Hamas fighters. The statistics of war are tricky.

It is too dreadful for words. All of it. But Hamas are desperately trying to manufacture consent for the destruction of Israel. It is everyone’s duty to double check everything they read.

Both sides are culpable in the radicalisation of youngsters. Both sides need to realise their culpability. Hamas actively seeks to radicalise. Israel does not help things. Both sides are in the wrong.
I imagine young people in Gaza in particular feel angry, traumatised and hopeless. It's not surprising that they want to strike out.

honest question why there are so
Many Jewish people in US protesting against this?

honest answer. Do some maths. That clip states 500 Jewish people protested. There are 6.2 million Jewish people in the US. Which makes this 0.008% of them.

Just because anti semitics wiped out Jews from most of the world there’s still plenty in the US. H2H

The synagogue in Berlin thing is true, and horrifying!

As for "what people said even before Israeli retaliation started: I have NOT verified these claims - but I am willing to believe them in good faith! Because, quite honestly: humans, generally speaking, have an unfortunate tendency to descend into naked Jingoism if you let them! Also: I have, personally, had the misfortune of witnessing technically uninvolved, well meaning university students in London descend down the path of "f*ck yeah, suicide bombing!". (And then I lectured them on the nature and complete inhumanity of war and may, or may not, have totally emotionally blackmailed them with "as white Europeans, I get precedence of opinion over you - because you are sitting in a meeting that you read about on the SU notice board, and I have been to therapy because I was literally there when the IDF shot literal children - and it is NOT working, so: I am traumatised and you have no idea how one ends up traumatised! So: go fuck off, if you have no idea what "war" means in practical, lived reality!".

But, conversely: I have just, high-level, laid out where I am coming from. I am NOT expecting you to acknowledge - your language and data points lead me to believe I am to start at the very beginning - ARE YOU WILLING TO ACKNOWLEDGE that the occupation has also killed innocent children? Are you willing to believe me, a (presumably, assuming based on MN demographics) fellow white European woman, whose main crime was to have fallen in love with a Palestinian man and "gone to meet the future in-laws" at the exact wrong time, are you willing to believe me that I have seen the IDF shoot at children, seen a child get killed, and that, despite extensive therapy, I have never been quite the same ever after?

If you are: let us start from there, and let us build towards hope, rather than propaganda and extermination!

So these jewish people calling for end to the occupation are anti semites?

One side was having a Peace Rave/Festival before they were all gunned down, I don't agree with you.

Actually they will probably eradicate Hamas. That is because what is left of Hamas will form again under a different name. This has happened many times before with terrorist groups. They may even break off into different fraction. However they will all still have same agenda and use same methods.

Part of the reason to rebrand is to fool useful idiots in the west. Pretending to be a new resistance group that only has Palestinians best interests at heart will bring money. The money to replace weapons and continue their property millionarie portfolio all over the world. Of course the useful idiots will think the money is going towards helping Palestinian citizens and legal battles etc.

Iran will know this is the same old Hamas so will continue to fund.

Useful idiots in the west, never a truer word spoken.

honest answer. Do some maths. That clip states 500 Jewish people protested. There are 6.2 million Jewish people in the US. Which makes this 0.008% of them.

Just because anti semitics wiped out Jews from most of the world there’s still plenty in the US. H2H

By your logic there are around 7 million Palestinians most of which are Muslims bank and Gaza. However billions more Muslims than that around the world. So plenty of them.

Your logic is greatly floored!

Hamas ARE based in Gaza and, since 2005 Israeli withdrawal, have been able to build an extensive terrorist network there.

Including tunnels.

All of this has to be destroyed and then Hamas can be engaged by the Israel Defense Forces in Gaza.

Gaza is best thought of in two layers. Ground surface layer is for civilians. Underground is for Hamas where they hide, store weapons, come up with attacks, etc.

The stated intention is to destroy Hamas.

There has never been a counter-insurgency and counter-terrorist conflict without any civilian deaths.

Especially not when it comes to organisations like Hamas who NATO StratCom COE identified in their 2019 report like to use civilians as human shields.

You might ignore all of these factors, but it's all very much part of the reality in going after a terrorist group of this scale and organisation.

I was talking about both governments not young folk at festivals.

Your logic is greatly floored!

Love that!

Whilst you're correct, I guess Israel does radicalise some people, but I guess that's because the country is surrounded by other countries that hate them beyond measure.

First 10 minutes of this report includes useful analysis regarding the question of who bombed the hospital.

This is the NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence report I've been referring to published in 2019.

So much of it still applies, including their observations regarding Hamas' attempts to use propaganda to try to weaken Western support for Israel.

That's what we've seen the last few days.

The reality is that terrorist groups are expert at playing on your emotions and will get their claims out very quickly. People then react to the first thing they see emotionally and that frames the narrative for the rest of the conflict.

It's very difficult to shift first impressions as a result.

Democratic States are hindered in comparison since they have to take their time in responding to terrorist propaganda amongst other things.

This is what we've seen the last couple of days especially.

I'm pretty depressed when I say this but when the useful idiots in the West realise they've been conned it's going to be far too late.

A great many people are finally waking up to the truth.

@DownNative You do realise propaganda works both ways?

The collective punishment actions of Israel have been massively disproportionate to numbers killed in the Hamas attacks, 3k+ odd deaths and many more injured in 10 days and many more starved, dehydrated and so on.

Yet Israel still have support from many Western govts and people because they've convinced them it's ok to behave this way, calling it "self defense" against 2.2m mainly innocent gazans by committing war crimes, collective punishment, indiscriminate bombing in retaliation, with a massively superior military and weaponry, denying them food, water etc.

This is not what i was asking.I am
Not saying most jewish i am saying some of them

You are all implying that people who are criticising israel are anti Semitic deep down and it all come down to that not to the clear fact that they are committing war crimes and i don't see how their tactics will free hostages or capture terrorists

So with that logic i was asking you why are jewish people
Criticising israel and the occupation of Palestine if they by definition cannot be antisemitic ?

Can we take a moment to reflect to reflect on the actions of the Western MSM - do they hate us?

With what seemed like glee almost every MSM outlet went with the story from Hamas that the IDF had attacked a hospital and killed 500 people - without question. Without a single fuck* question.

That intent to believe Hamas, instantly, has had effects and has radicalised people, this place included

I'm beginning to think the Left is *l and is all around us, all at once and only cares about the destruction of Israel and then the West.

@DownNative. Agree.

I felt hugely emotional and I still do.
But I'm aware of this which is why I kelt urging caution. Unfortunately people don't want it they want what they want to hear.