Why won’t Egypt help the Gazans?

[antiterror]

It seems the most if not the only logical solution, to set up refugee shelters in the Sinai peninsula?

What I'm struggling is your irresponsible examples. Was Brexit a stupid idea? Yes. Is using it as an irresponsible example to divide and incite hatred? Yes it is and it does the Remainer cause no favours.

I'm sorry you are struggling with basic decency.

Honestly I don’t think you’re best placed for this conversation

That's not for you to decide.

Perhaps relevant; I saw on Twitter that Jordan is deploying troops along its border with Israel to stop Palestinian militant refugees crossing into the West Bank and inflaming things further.

What you appear to be struggling with is answering the question.

”Honestly I don’t think you’re best placed for this conversation”

“That's not for you to decide.”

I think I’m pretty much the only person who can reliably tell you what I think.

Have you thought about racing to the boarder through the bombing and choosing life in a refugee camp for you and yours yet? The water and electricity have been off for a couple of days and there’s no food to be bought and no medicine. What are you packing?

A few . reasons.

1. A serious lack of resources. If you’ve ever been to the Sinai. The most obvious issue is the lack of water. If you dump a million people in a boiling hot desert then you are going to need to provide at least 8 million litres of water and at least 200 hundred tonnes of food a day from a standing start.
2. Hamas. When taking in refugees, who’s a terrorist and who isn’t? Hamas have significant links to the Muslim brotherhood and Egypt are already struggling with them.
3. Economics. Egypt’s economy is really struggling and unless the international community wants to cough up then you are dumping a huge economic burden on a country that can’t cope with what they have already.
4. Annexation. If the Gaza Strip is evacuated into the Sinai desert then Israel will annexe it and the Palestinians will never get it back.

The reality is, Israel has fallen into a trap set up by Hamas and the Iranians and the Palestinians will pay the price in blood and Israel will suffer economic and international repercussions. It’s also going to lose a lot of soldier’s over the coming weeks/months.

I deplore what Hamas has done and the poor Palestinians will suffer the terrible effects of a FIBUA ( fighting in built up areas) battle but Israel is stuck. Its population will not allow Hamas to go unpunished and in carrying out the will of its people the Israeli government will suffer international condemnation.

If you want to know how awful a fibua battle is, there’s a formula for it. In a straight battle in open country, to defeat the enemy, you will need 3 times more troops than the enemy does and you can expect a third of your force to be killed or wounded. In an urban battlefield you need 10 times the troops your enemy has and again a third of your force will be killed or wounded. So open battle means 10 enemy soldiers mean 30 friendly troops and ten casualties. Urban battle means 10 enemy troops will need a hundred troops and you can expect 33 casualties

An Israeli commander when faced with a building that is housing enemy has a couple of choices. He can flatten the building with an air strike, killing everyone inside including any civilians or he can do assault the building and hope his troops can identify any civilians. The reality is that a direct assault is no better than the air strike. The first step to the assault is to effect an entry to the building. You can’t go through windows or doors as they are likely to be booby trapped. So you use a mouse hole charge to blow a hole in the wall. That’s not good for anyone in the room but to make matters worse, once you make the hole, you chuck a couple of grenades through that hole and hope that no hostiles in that room survive or the first soldier through dies. Once you are through that hole and the room is clear, you have to repeat the whole process again for every single room in the building.

No decent commander will choose direct assault if an air strike is available.

I have no sympathy with the Israeli government whilst having lots of sympathy for the Israeli people. Netanyahu is directly responsible for this at least as much asHamas and Iran are. The Palestinians deserve better than this but there is no power on earth that can save then from the terrible ordeal they will suffer.

About a 1/3 of them did but due to a quirk in the electoral system that means they took total power.

I thought they hadn't had elections in Gaza for about 16 years?

I think the last elections were in 2006 ….

Half Iraqi here. I agree with everything you've just said. Please seem to forget what barbarians Arab governments are and Palestine is their best PR machine.

Quite apart from all the good political and economic reasons detailed above how does anyone imagine a million people would actually get to Iran or Qatar?

They are both more than 2000 km away from Gaza which would require at least 3000 flights - all at short notice

Asylum seekers can legally work in Ireland after 6 months, and they do, but thousands are still living in hotels, as accommodation is for asylum seekers is not means tested, so the majority don't leave state provided accommodation (with full board or food allowance if self-catering) when they get jobs.

Allowing asylum seekers to work in the UK won't stop the use of hotels, unless free accommodation is limited to asylum seekers who are not working, though carries a disincentive to work.

Gaza was Egyptian territory until the Six-Day War.

I get the distinct impression that, like the Jordanians with the West Bank, they secretly think they are well rid of it.

Of Israel's Six-Day War conquests, only Syria seems to want its lost territory (the Golan Heights) back.

My post above was a reply to a PP who suggested that room for asylum seekers in UK would be created if asylum seekers were permitted to work as then they would leave hotels - didn't realise it would come up as a stand alone post on the thread. Wasn't attempting to derail.

R comments on Egypt being too poor to host Gazan refugees, surely the many people and countries calling for support for the people of Gaxa would provide them with support?

Iran for example, is providing significant mititary support to Hamas for a war it can't win, this could be used instead to support the people of Gaza in temporary refuge in Egypt, or they could support people in southern Gaza, desalination equipment would be much more useful than more rockets to fire over the border at Israel.

US want Egypt to open the crossing to get US citizens out of Gaza, Egypt refusing to do so unless hundreds of Egyptian ambulances and aid trucks lined up at the border are allowed to cross without being bombed as Israel said they would. US now negotiating.

The Iranian government doesnt even give a fuck about its own people never mind the Palestinians. In the unlikely even that Israel were wiped off the map, as they want, they would wage war on the Palestinians, as they are Sunni Muslim. They only care about lining their own pockets, educating their own daughters in the West while terrorising the female population of Iran and destroying Israel.

Interesting point by IvorTheEngineDriver that Gaza was Egyptian territory, is a return to Egyptian territory a possible solution? I can understand that Egypt wouldn't want Has in, but it could be as an interim measure until a referendum of independence could be held. Israel can't be held as solely responsible for providing a solution, as this won't work.

I think a 2 state solution is the only option that could work, with a demilitarised zone with international peace keepers to ensure the border is respected by both sides.

The only countries that recognise Israel in the MENA are Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Turkey and UAE and Bahrain recently.
This is the problem in the Muslim countries. Saudia Arabia were about to have historic negotiations with Israel. Of course Iran and Hamas don't want that!
Iran does not give a fuck about its own people, it murders and imprisons the most wonderful people every fucking day. They do not give a fuck about Palestinans either. It's all about self preservation.

You know Hamas murdered some of the most Left Wing peace loving Israelis , those of the Kibbutz not far from Gaza. Many Peace activists, hippies, people who loved working the land.
Why on Earth would Egypt or Jordan risk infiltrating their land with the most savage terrorists while trying to save innocents.
It's a damn tragedy.

@Patchesofdrizzle Egypt returned Gaza as early as 1978. They don’t want it.

My DS's RE teacher said a few months ago that the Kibbutz was a communist blueprint for society. Bit like anti capitalists smashing in the windows of John Lewis- the world's biggest workers cooperative. They just want a scrap and don't know or care what ' cause' they attach themselves to. Hamas and theur supporters couldn't care less about Palestine.

Neither Egypt, Lebanon nor Jordan are willing to take Palestinians because when they have it hasn’t worked out too well. As I recall, Hamas killed a number of Egyptian border guards, deployed a large number of sucide bombers, and fermented overall unrest with the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas were a major factor in the civil war in Lebanon too.

When they were evacuated to Jordan, it resulted in Black September. They tried to kill the King, assassinated the prime minister, and kicked off another civil war.

Interesting point by IvorTheEngineDriver that Gaza was Egyptian territory, is a return to Egyptian territory a possible solution? I can understand that Egypt wouldn't want Has in, but it could be as an interim measure until a referendum of independence could be held. Israel can't be held as solely responsible for providing.

No. Egypt doesn't want the territory or the people. And an independence referendum wouldn't materially change anything. Gaza is independent and has been self governing since 2005, after all. The constraints that exist now would continue to do so.

Setting aside the question of taking refugees - a siege is only effective if maintained on all borders. Why would Egypt not supply food/water/medicine across its border (at Gaza’s expense or the international community’s). There must be a reason…what is it? Sorry if I’m duplicating someone else’s question btw.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/12/iran-sinister-plan-is-in-danger-of-succeeding/

Sorry to change the topic but Iranian protesters in the diaspora and within Iran have been screaming this for the past year. I've written to my local MP the foreign secretary, attended rallies in London and supported the man who was hospitalised after the hunger strike outside the British foreign office ( he's still there btw)
Instead Biden gives the regime 6 billion for a prisoner swap.
The IRGC has to be designated a terrorist outfit. THIS WOULD REALLY HELP STOP SPREAD TERROR AND DISMATLE THE EVIL 44 YEAR OLD IRANIAN REGIME