Why won’t Egypt help the Gazans?

[antiterror]

It seems the most if not the only logical solution, to set up refugee shelters in the Sinai peninsula?

Egypt absolutely does NOT want Gazans inside their borders for at least three reasons.

1. They don't want Gazans using their territory to attack Israel from.

2. Egypt don't want more refugees.

3. Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi said, “The threat there is significant because it means the liquidation of this (Palestinian) cause. It’s important for its people to stay steadfast and exist on its land.”

Egypt actively WANTS Gazans to stay in Gaza.

This is from Reuters:

"Security in the area around Rafah is also of concern to Egypt because Sinai has been the site of an Islamist insurgency that flared a decade ago. Hamas, which has run the Gaza Strip since 2007, shares the Islamist ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement outlawed in Egypt."

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/bombardments-hit-area-gaza-sinai-border-crossing-gaza-officials-2023-10-10/

Egypt DOESN'T want or need Hamas sneaking in and linking up with Muslim Brotherhood.

From a National Security perspective, it's far better for Egypt to keep their border shut to keep Hamas away from Muslim Brotherhood.

See attachment also.

There is truth to this, but the problem is how to square that circle?

Egypt AND Israel both have security concerns in regards to the Gazan population.

One of the most depressing things I've ever done was work for a summer at a deradicalisation facility for children in Northern Pakistan during my PhD as a practicum. The facility was at the cutting edge, and the success rate even short term was absolutely dire. Medium term, results collapsed entirely. It was utterly tragic.

We simply have no robust way of really deradicalisating people, especially children, for whom their entire lives have been framed through an extremist lens. It's embedded in every interaction: nursery rhymes, textbooks, linguistic sayings and playground games. This should be such a highly prioritised area of research in military studies and post-conflict reconstruction, but it's unfortunately neglected in part because we don't really have an answer or even an idea. The facilities you see with low ideological recidivism tend to be found in non-democracies, have a population of adults who radicalised later in life, and have neutralisation policies for cases that are deemed unfixable.

They could be the ‘wrong sort’ of Muslims. There are various sects who hate each other Iran and Saudi for example.

Exactly my thoughts.

It's rare that terrorists go on to renounce their ideologies. Even in my home country of Northern Ireland, they show in subtle ways they don't renounce it. In the end, it shows up on their grave headstones.

A lot of gullible people can be taken in by some of the mental gymnastics so-called "former" terrorists do. And I put that on quotes because they're simply dormant in terms of action yet believe the time must be right for any future terrorist actions. The conditions must be there.

I can think of just one person who renounced terrorism - Shane Paul O'Doherty who writes against terrorism often.

Just one out of thousands!,

This is not the case, but is a common misconception. You're referring to the Shi'a-Sunni divide, which is not really inspired religiously anymore, this is much more political and social. Gaza is overwhelmingly Sunni, as is Egypt. The issue is one of Egypt's security, as the country was subject to ongoing violence and terror from residents of Gaza who would slip in and out through the Rafah border during periods of Egyptian military offensive. Egypt do not want the presence of a potential security problem within their borders.

The islamists in Egypt have attacked Coptic Christians, tourists. Egypt cannot afford to take in Hamas.

It's crazy that after so many atrocities committed by Islamists, people STILL like to play the victim 😳 instead of adddressing it and supporting grassroots democracy.
There are also several charities collecting money for Gazans. I've just donated a little. People who sit and scream ethnic cleaning, not allowing Jews to grieve and feel frightened after what Hamas did is just nuts to me.
The assumption that people want to destroy Palestinians when Hamas, Hezbollah and many countries call for the destruction of Israel.
Crazy

I’ve said it before I had hoped that encouraging the population south so they can receive some aid but away from the ground invasion is a good thing given that Israel will be going ahead. Hopefully people get water soon and hopefully further aid will be forthcoming and medical aid can be set up asap.

I’ve been castigated on a other thread for suggesting hamas should stop telling people to stay put with loads of people telling me they have nowhere to go despite the fact that you can clearly see people are going. The reality is away from a ground invasion is the best place to be. Israel will be unlikely to be carpet bombing gaza city while their troops are there, most likely they were trying to degrade hamas capabilities before they sent in troops. Also a ground invasion through a city with hostiles and booby traps os going to be extremely slow. So it’s not like Israel is going to sweep through at pace.

I saw Lammh being interviewed by Trevor Philips this morning. What I found interesting is how unequivocal he was about Israels right to defend itself (not Labour’s natural position). He had been part of a privy briefing and I can’t help but to think a) he’s had to look at a lot of horrible pictures and videos of the terror attack and b) theres other things that perhaps the rest of us aren’t aware of.

@DownNative with information, they dropped leaflets to leave why not about hammas.

Constant information bombardment, examples of both living together, we didn't need to be devided.. Info about hammas using water pipes etc.
Info about aid going in.. Demanding they get free and fair elections, proper education that's free and fair...

Etc.

Obviously im not doing a masters in this but that's my top of the head take.

There is a group of doctor and academics within isreal who want peace. Hopefully they will get rid of nettunyahoo soon and both sides eventually get moderates in

Because last time I checked we don’t share a border with Palestine.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vaccine-religious-fundamentalism-no-peace-israel-gaza-war-hamas-comment-593gxthxn

Good article by Matthew Syed.

Thats really interesting and somewhat depressing but not unexpected.

Cross party consensus in the U.K. is good. I can't think there is any advantage in playing this as a party issue, on public order and security grounds.

Again I would make sure that the poor people of gaza know why they are having issues getting into Egypt and the extent of their problems because of hammas.

Have you got a source for the BBC calling Hamas “fighters” @ChardonnaysBeastlyCat?

Amen 🙏🏼

One attached.

Why, yes I do! The BBC itself?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67039975

The Palestinian militant group Hamas launched an unprecedented attack on Israel on 7 October, with its fighters entering communities near the Gaza Strip, killing at least 1,300 people, and taking scores of hostages.

The first paragraph, to make it even easier.

A lot of disinformation and bold claims on this thread - and some frankly disgusting and callous lack of empathy (for grief-struck, shocked, and scared Israelis, as well as for Palestinian civilians in Gaza, who are being subjected to hell on earth as I type this)!

On substance, there are several reasons why Gazans aren't escaping to Egypt. They include, but are not limited to:

1. True, Egypt doesn't want Hamas - but it's not for some of the frankly quite racist things PP have said. This is more of a domestic Egyptian situation: remember a few years ago, when Egypt - following the deposition of Mubarak - finally held elections? And, the Muslim Brother Mohammed Morsi won the presidency - only to be deposed in his own right shortly thereafter in a coup d'etat by the current guy, Al-Sisi?

Well - current propaganda waves on Twitter/X notwithstanding - Hamas are nothing like ISIS (not because they're nicer or anything - but because Hamas is, essentially, a nationalist movement, albeit one with a religious flavour). But Hamas very much is like the Muslim Brotherhood. As a matter of fact, Hamas is (or originally was, at the very least) an offshot of the Muslim Brotherhood. Which is, by the way, banned in Egypt - purportedly on the grounds that it's a terrorist organisation (but also: kind of useful as a storyline, when you yourself, literally, came to power via a military coup!).

Egypt is due its presidential "election" this coming December! Undoubtedly, president Al-Sisi hopes to repeat or even beat his impressive last results, that saw him get some 97% of all votes. So, so loved, this man! So admired! He must be incredibly adored to achieve such results </blatantSarcasm>.

Needless to say: the less "smells of Muslim Brotherhood" around the better for Sisi and his ability to maintain the semblance of electoral legitimacy.

[Contd]

17m ago
18.27 BST
US secretary of state Antony Blinken: Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza to reopenFollowing his multi-country tour of the region, US secretary of state Antony Blinken said that the Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza will be reopened, Reuters reports.
Blinken added that the US is putting in place mechanisms alongside the UN, Egypt and Israel to get assistance to those in need of it.

I look forward to all the posters claiming that Israel was trying to enforce Egyptian blockade too rather than simply make independent decisions for their own trade coming back to apologise and recognise their biases.

1. Egypt is an economic basketcase. It has neither the means nor the inclination to sustain a large refugee population. Especially seeing as - see above - they're about to have an "election".

1. Egypt has a relationship of "uneasy peace" with Israel. Both are major US allies in the region. Before there was the current situation, any confrontations between both, generally speaking, did not end that well for Egypt (a.k.a. "they lost the war every single time). The very last thing the Egyptian leadership wants is to get into a conflict with Israel.

1. Even if they wanted to - Egyptians cannot just unilaterally open Rafah. They'd risk a huge bombing campaign - about the very last thing you want when evacuating civilians.

[Contd]

I just saw a flying pig outside by the moon...