France has outlawed pro-palestinian demonstrations

[NotSuchASmugMarried]

It's worried about the rise of anti-semitism. Do you think the same thing will happen here?

It isn’t big Israel against little poor palsestinians -it is the whole of the Middle East -Egypt,Lebanon,Syria,Jordan wanting Israel to not exist. They manipulate and arm Hamas and Palestine to try to achieve this -oh, Iran too.
The Palestinians live in miserable Jordanian etc refugee camps so that the ME can say poor Palestinians ,cruel Usrael , when they are manipulating the situations and forcing this miserable life on them.

France has many North Africans who will support the ME. We have many Muslims but mainly from Pakistan so not normally as supportive of ME.

I am not going to debate whether Israel itself should exist and the historical claims to the land. The fact remains that it does exist, has existed for 75 years and currently has 2nd/3rd/4th generation Israelis who were born and have lived their entire lives there, and don’t want to live anywhere else. How can they be peacefully removed? Where should they be removed to? Or do you think control of Israel should be transferred to the people who’s charter it is to eradicate all Jews?

The people who state Israelis are occupiers and colonists would rightly baulk at the far right in the UK describing Newham, for example, as being occupied by colonisers.

Wow. If you're posting here and splitting hairs over which particular types of civilian humans (female, male, adolescent, child, infant) were decapitated vs merely riddled with bullets, raped, and/or kidnapped by hordes of armed terrorists, you lost the moral argument long ago.
Meanwhile there's currently an incident going on at the Sydney Jewish Museum (fuck all to do with Zionism, it's a Holocaust museum).

There are huge numbers of Lebanese immigrants to Australia -hence the ‘gas the Jews’ rhetoric.

There are 6-7 million Jews in the USA -hence their support.

To be clear, the Australian government and the majority of the population support's Israel's right to defend itself.

It’s horrific

i never want Jewish people to feel persecuted like the did in the thirties and forties ever again. Hamas has committed terrorist murder

but I also cannot fathom bombing and killing the innocents in Gaza. The whole thing is awful. Just awful. It’s always always the innocents that suffer most

I think it is the action of a responsible government to ban demonstrations whilst feelings are at fever pitch. It would be extremely irresponsible to allow them to continue knowing the risks. This is not about shutting down democracy but protecting both sides.

I am staggered at the posts defending the murder of babies and children. Taking them hostage as a bargaining tool is sickening. It seems to me that maybe Israel has been TOO lenient and complacent. I can’t imagine this kind of leniency of hamas violence being in any way acceptable in another nearby Arab country for instance. Hamas would have been shut down within 24h maximum never to be seen again.

There was has been significant concern about the number of civilian deaths in the Iraq war and the use of cluster bombs. There were anti Iraq war protests all over the world.

A civil society should be allowed to criticise other states for bombing civilian areas - particularly a state that is laying siege to 2 million people - 1 million of whom are children.

I can appreciate France’s ban on pro- Palestinian protests at this point - if it fears an escalation in attacks against French Jews. However- people should still be able to voice their thoughts in a reasonable and rationale manner without being accused of antisemitism.

I don’t condone the actions of Hamas and can understand why Israel is hurting and angry. I can see they want revenge. However - they need to act within international law.

I can’t see how preventing access to food water fuel medicines etc, which puts so many innocent children’s lives at risk, is justified nor legal.

This sums it up perfectly. What happened over the weekend was horrific but what Israel is doing now is equally horrific. They are decimating a whole nation while the world stands by and watches. It’s unforgivable.

I think it’s a bit glib to call Israel’s action revenge -it’s also an attempt to remove the hamas killers so they don’t do the same again.

They aren’t decimating a whole nation - millions of Palestinians live in refugee camps in Jordan etc
These countries are happy to perpetuate the Palestinian problem

Happy to be corrected- but wanted to emphasise I can appreciate the hurt Jewish people are feeling.

But what about the rest of my post?

It's entirely predicable that the Hamas apologists are going to be out denying the patently obvious. It's the Bucha playbook, the Assad playbook, the Nazi playbook, the Srebrenica playbook, the Tiannamen Square playbook, and the Uighur playbook.

To this day grown men insist the gas chambers were showers, a holohoax BUT (wink wink) if they were gas chambers, the diabolical Jews deserved it.

It's clear that your heros from the resistance are not good men.

They were ghouls. And so are you. Even if we released the most graphic pictures - the charred, chopped up babies, the headless bodies - you wouldn't believe us. You would say it was fake.

In fact you say it was fake even though Hamas previously told you it was true.

The Qatari funded media wing of Hamas, Al Jazeera, has already played in international TV evidence of torture (cuffed detainees being beaten and kicked), sexual assault, (captured women bleeding from genital area), kidnapping of civilians and actual footage of murdered unarmed civilians.

We have the harrowing testimony of the eyewitnesses but #TheJewsDontCount.

Those of you on telegram were proudly showing a gravely injured Thai farm worker, lying in a pool of blood, being executed with blows of a spade to the head by angrily shouting men. Just a few days ago you were proud of it, and it was on your WhatsApps and in your parachute emojis and swastikas, your chanting about from the river to the sea.

And that makes you complicit. That's why France is not allowing Hamas sympathisers to participate in Hamas' call for a day of rage.

We are fighting for our lives and we are not ashamed

I promise you we are not celebrating the deaths of children. God bless and preserve all the children and innocent people on both sides.

Watch your older teens and don't let them cruise Jewish areas tonight looking for trouble. It doesn't help the Palestinian people. Donate to charity.

Bien fait La France, bien fait 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻.

Hamas are terrorists. Their stated aim is the eradication of all Jews.

Palestinians are a people sacrificed to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood’s death cult. Hamas don’t care that this means certain retribution from Israel. Israel have the worst government at the worst time for this and peace is not on the table.

pointing out the apartheid state and issues in Gaza now is like pointing out the gun laws during a school shooting and before the bullets have stopped firing. Yes, it’s relevant to an awful situation but INSISTING on Jewish culpability during one of the most gruesome and barbaric attacks in modern history… that smacks of anti-semitism to me.

I would guess the Israelis are moving the population before bombing -Hamas have munitions in houses and schools ,under hospitals -do the Israelis just leave all of this to be rebuilt and used again in 5years time.
whats the answer?
The attitude is Israel has to put up with this as they are nasty invaders but really a solution was offered in the past -Palestinians refused. Plus for some reason no one condemns all the other surrounding countries who could come up with a solution tomorrow but just want the Jews dead or gone.
Some sort of medieval hatred mean the countries in the ME won’t let Israel have their own land.

People went out to celebrate as soon as the attack happened. People were literally in the streets celebrating a terrorist attack. literally glorifying a terrorist attack.

How would people in Britain feel if there were people publicly celebrating after 7/7 bombing, the manchester bombing, tower bridge, the bataclan, bastille day attack and so on?

Not surprised they have been banned, it’s difficult to parse people who are just celebrating the slaughter of Israelis and those simply worried about Gazans.

Exactly. They just excuse the innocent people ( including babies) deaths of Saturday because they are Jews.
I'm tired of the antisemitism from some users of mumsnet.

Agreed that pointing out Jewish culpability smacks of antisemitism in understanding the causes leading upto the Hamas attack at this time point.

However- I think it necessary to try and prevent children being killed during a school shooting?

Protecting immediate unnecessary death of innocent children in a school shooting would be a good analogy. Teachers have put their lives doing this in schools . UN peace keepers are currently putting their lives at risk trying to do this in Gaza.

People aren’t antisemitic - people support the underdog who is Palestinians according to the last few years news coverage. But by just listening to that they don’t see all the surrounding manipulation by other countries -Iran,Qatar etc

israel looks rich and wealthy -Palestinians thanks to their politicians looks poor and sad.
Rich Arab countries could pour money into Palestine but choose not to.
So I don’t think it’s antisemitism just lack of information and poor news coverage.

Do you think a 2 state solution is tenable?
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/11/arab-ministers-urge-israel-to-resume-talks-on-two-state-solution

This war is so destructive and so violent because the human shields in Gaza wish it to be so.

On Radio 4 last night they broadcast a long interview with a Palestinian journalist. Of course she was not Hamas and neither were her family. But the massacre, she said, was Israel's fault - they should have stopped the murderers from murdering. Why should she suffer? She would never move herself, and her young family ,who could be heard in the background, to Egypt, for fear of never coming back.

Israel is going to reoccupy the strip. It is a logical and reasonable action. Hamas have literally decimated Israel's left wing, anti war, Arabic speaking peace campaigners who lived in the Kibbutzim around the strip. Nobody has the right of indeed the capability at this point to restrict Israel's actions of eminent self defence.

Israel has asked civilians North of Wadi Gaza - 1.1 million people - to move. A humanitarian catastrophe, like Aleppo, like Mosul, like Fallujah. There is only one sensible thing for people who love life and their children to do.

Those who wish to fall as human shields to the 'resistance' - you have children. The choice is not yours to make. Tomorrow will come. Endure these days for the sake of your children who are the future of your nation. You will return to rebuild a free and democratic Palestine.

Most Jewish and Israeli people don't support Israel's attack on Gaza. Most people in Gaza don't support Hamas and the attack on Israel. Mothers from Gaza and Israel have been marching together for peace.
In a democracy, it should never be illegal to protest against breaches of international law. And we should all be worried that the UK Government is supporting the flouting of international law and putting the lives of civilians (including UK civilians in Gaza) at risk. They are setting very dangerous precedents here. Blatantly showing they are happy to disregard the Hague and Geneva Conventions ushers in a dangerous new era globally.

There is a huge march planned in London on Saturday and I’m worried what could happen.

i don’t think I’m alone in not really understanding it. I think it’s such a hugely complex history that most people in the West have very little understanding of how or why the conflict has escalated in the way it has.

Please could I ask some questions, they’re not meant to antagonise I’m trying to learn:

1. Are there any Palestinian or other authorities or pro-Palestinian groups who can stop Hamas, if not why not? Is the only way of stopping them for Israel to obliterate them or can another group do it in another way?
2. Is it possible to be pro Palestinian or anti Israeli, and not anti semite? If it is, why aren’t pro Palestinian supporters condemning the terrorism?
3. I’m increasingly uncomfortable about the impact of Israel’s response on civilians, why aren’t any foreign powers trying to help broker a deal? I guess that’s with Blinken is over?
4. Where will all this end?

The rally should be cancelled and stopped in London too, creating more tension and violence in other parts of the world won’t resolve the conflict in the Middle East.