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France has outlawed pro-palestinian demonstrations

596 replies

NotSuchASmugMarried · 12/10/2023 21:54

It's worried about the rise of anti-semitism. Do you think the same thing will happen here?

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duchiebun · 13/10/2023 06:53

Why should I be murdered because that is who my country is ran by even though I don't support them?

Thats true for every conflict though isn’t it?

FairylightsandHygge · 13/10/2023 06:54

The vast majority of people who attend these marches do so because they feel the pain of Palestinian civilians who have been forced by Israel into lives not worth living - they do so because they want to stand up against tyranny and show support for an oppressed people, just as people showed support for oppressed Jews in the second world war.

Is it really tha hard to understand?

Maybe if you fall for the in-sided rhetoric of the media and the utter dehumanisation of the Palestinian people by Israel.

Its like oppressing a whole nation of people, denying them their rights and then bleating about people feeling sorry for them.

As long as Israel keeos grabbing land from Palestine, people have no right to call for protests to stop.

duchiebun · 13/10/2023 06:55

For the posters who reel out 'but Hamas are the elected govt', why do you think that proves hamas = all Palestinians?

Hamas is the government but obviously many Palestinians have little choice in the matter as Hamas are not democratic.

duchiebun · 13/10/2023 06:57

I do think it’s odd there isn’t more criticism of Hamas in their role of government as I don’t think they have been good for the average Palestinian but maybe I’m wrong?

sleepyscientist · 13/10/2023 06:57

duchiebun · 13/10/2023 06:39

The fact that Israel has just asked half of gaza to move to the other side, that's almost 1.1 million people in a move the UN has called impossible is more of a reason to protest. How people here have so little sympathy for Palestinians is shocking

Why do you think people don’t have sympathy for ordinary Palestinians. Perhaps Eqypt will open their borders?

Why should Egypt open its borders with a state known to be harbouring terrorists? Egypt has its own issues and is still rebuilding after all the issues it faced in the up risings. You are asking them to open their borders with known terrorists, how would you feel if the UK said we would take the people of Gaza and parked up a war ship to do it? The British public won't even take those who arrive on small boats!

The people of Gaza elected a terrorism organisation to represent them, this is no different to war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, the only difference is it's not the USA defending us and them.

Maybe it's time as a world we either tried to step in with the support of the lies of Saudi to create a two state nation or the likes of Iran resettle the Palestinian people but with the expectation they don't elect a terrorism organisation possibly having a nato lead government for a while. What can't be expected is for Isreal to live with a terrorist organisation openly only a stones throw from its people.

duchiebun · 13/10/2023 07:00

Why should Egypt open its borders with a state known to be harbouring terrorists?

Thats the conundrum isn’t it @sleepyscientist

You are asking them to open their borders with known terrorists, how would you feel if the UK said we would take the people of Gaza and parked up a war ship to do it?

I assume there are many on these threads who are open to this idea? To be clear I’m not.

Lastchancechica · 13/10/2023 07:02

FairylightsandHygge · 13/10/2023 06:54

The vast majority of people who attend these marches do so because they feel the pain of Palestinian civilians who have been forced by Israel into lives not worth living - they do so because they want to stand up against tyranny and show support for an oppressed people, just as people showed support for oppressed Jews in the second world war.

Is it really tha hard to understand?

Maybe if you fall for the in-sided rhetoric of the media and the utter dehumanisation of the Palestinian people by Israel.

Its like oppressing a whole nation of people, denying them their rights and then bleating about people feeling sorry for them.

As long as Israel keeos grabbing land from Palestine, people have no right to call for protests to stop.

Honestly don’t be ridiculous. Hamas has just killed babies and children in cold blood and you think it’s a good idea to organise a rally to support them?

Are you out of your mind?

It will be shut down before it’s even started. It has no place here in London or anywhere else. I can not believe you support such despicable acts.

Startingagainandagain · 13/10/2023 07:05

You need to give the full story and the context.

France has specific laws that make supporting any terrorist organisation illegal.

They consider Hamas to be a terrorist organisation.

Hence why the protests supporting the group are banned.

That's all there is to it...

TenaciousTortoise · 13/10/2023 07:06

Startingagainandagain · 13/10/2023 07:05

You need to give the full story and the context.

France has specific laws that make supporting any terrorist organisation illegal.

They consider Hamas to be a terrorist organisation.

Hence why the protests supporting the group are banned.

That's all there is to it...

Do we have similar laws here?

Lastchancechica · 13/10/2023 07:10

TenaciousTortoise · 13/10/2023 07:06

Do we have similar laws here?

No, but inciting violence will not be allowed here in the U.K.. Nor targeted action against any particular race. A pro Palestinian march will be considered antisemitic and shut down I imagine.

Everyone’s safety is prioritised and we will stand for persecution of any race here in the U.K. France are rightly preempting violent clashes and targeted race hate crimes so yes they were completely justified in banning demonstrations.

TenaciousTortoise · 13/10/2023 07:16

It’s going ahead on Saturday, all the local businesses etc are aware

Switcher · 13/10/2023 07:18

If only it was just Mumsnet.

Switcher · 13/10/2023 07:23

duchiebun · 13/10/2023 06:57

I do think it’s odd there isn’t more criticism of Hamas in their role of government as I don’t think they have been good for the average Palestinian but maybe I’m wrong?

That's exactly it. Hamas uses civilians as human shields. They place weapons in mosques and schools on purpose , to make Israel look like the bad guy. It was the PLO that walked away from the two state solution in the 90s. Arafat was a prick.

Lastchancechica · 13/10/2023 07:31

TenaciousTortoise · 13/10/2023 07:16

It’s going ahead on Saturday, all the local businesses etc are aware

I am assuming you also support Israel in their rallies too if this is a matter of ‘democracy’ and if so what do you think will happen?

I am fully expecting a crackdown.
We will not tolerate persecution here.

Highandlows · 13/10/2023 07:37

I would keep clear of this protest on Saturday. Where is this happening?

Lastchancechica · 13/10/2023 07:40

Highandlows · 13/10/2023 07:37

I would keep clear of this protest on Saturday. Where is this happening?

It’s not clear it’s happening at all. I am expecting Suella Braverman to step in and follow the example of France. We can’t have riots and division here.

Towerofsong · 13/10/2023 07:55

Bigbrotherpropoganda · 13/10/2023 05:02

There’s a big difference between Jews and Zionists.
Jews want the peaceful removal of Israel as a separate state.
Zionists want an apartheid state.
The far right in Israel are Zionists
Heres some demonstrators at London Pro Palestinian rally in London

That picture is of members of an extreme sect of ultra orthodox Jews, the Neturai Karta. There are many sects withing ultra orthodoxy and they are the most extreme. You can see the NK at the bottom of their placard. They are very, very fringe within Judaism. In essence, they believe that until the Messiah comes there should not be a Jewish state, that there should be no self determination by Jews and that Jews should accept whatever is meted out to them. Most of them live in Jerusalem.

To most other Jews, Zionism of some form is fundamental to Judaism, you can't take Israel out of it. They may disagree with the modern government but the concept of the original Jewish homeland runs deep. The connection to the land runs deep.

The most right wing elements of Zionism believe that as long as Muslims exist within Israel they will always be under attack, that Muslims see it as a religious duty to kill Jews and that for this reason there can be no coexistence. Remember that there were massacres of Jews in Israel long before the state of Israel was founded in 1948. Look up the Hebron massacre of 1929 for instance.

Following the Romans expelling Jews from Israel, Jews have been kicked out of country after country.
Back in the 1930's and 40's it was "Jews, get out of Europe"
1948 "Hey, sorry we killed y'all, here, have Israel, go and have your country back and be safe"
Following which Jews from Middle Eastern countries were evicted from their homes and sent as refugees to Israel.

And since then it's "Jews, get out of Israel"
There is nowhere left to go.

Towerofsong · 13/10/2023 07:58

Garlicnaan · 13/10/2023 03:38

Thanks for an informative post. It sounds like civilians in Gaza have no choice on their govt if there's not been an election for 17 years. Which makes it even worse that that are being attacked.

It would be much better for Gazan's if Hamas came out with the hostages and with their hands in the air. They could spare their people the suffering of an invading army having to go in and find them.

But they won't. They hole themselves up in residential areas.

Towerofsong · 13/10/2023 08:02

duchiebun · 13/10/2023 06:21

To be protesting for Palestine at a time when a group claiming to represent Palestinians is massacring Jews is optically implying support for the terrorist organisation.

Shouldn’t people want Palestinians to be freed from Hamas?

The protests aren't calling for Palestinians to be free from Hamas

They are calling for Israel to be free of Jews. That is exactly what 'from the river to the sea' means.

Highandlows · 13/10/2023 08:06

@Lastchancechica Thanks! Hopefully it does not go ahead.

PilatesHippo · 13/10/2023 08:11

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12611233/activist-hamas-inspiring-brighton-university-sussex-hanin-barghouti.html?ico=related-replace

about protests for Palestine. This is (unfortunately) a DM article but it also has a video clip. A Palestinian woman is talking about the initial Hamas attack - the one where Israelis were murdered in cold blood, women raped and babies killed. She states that she is so happy, she is a proud Palestinian and the attack by Hamas was a beautiful thing.

some Palestinians are not protesting for the civilians in Gaza. They are celebrating the dead Israeli civilians (raped women, killed babies).

Pictured: Activist who called Hamas attacks 'beautiful and inspiring'

EXCLUSIVE: Hanin Barghouti was seen addressing a crowd by the Clock Tower in Brighton during a protest organised by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign on Saturday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12611233/activist-hamas-inspiring-brighton-university-sussex-hanin-barghouti.html?ico=related-replace

TodayInahurry · 13/10/2023 08:14

Saw some French TV last night, Paris I think. French riot police out in force using water canons. It was only months ago they had violent riots, so obviously taking no chances.

Towerofsong · 13/10/2023 08:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

What planet are you on? Babies were killed. The evidence was on videos on Saturday posted by Hamas themselves. It only hit the western media mid week, because most people that knew were too appalled to speak of such horrendous things. Hoped it wasn't true etc.

There is no doubt that babies were murdered. The only debate is about whether they were decapitated and whether that was before or after they were already dead. Judaism does not do post mortems unless really necessary so there will unlikely be enough evidence to satisfy all the sick people that want to be sure they were decapitated first before they believe it. You should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.

notimagain · 13/10/2023 08:20

TodayInahurry · 13/10/2023 08:14

Saw some French TV last night, Paris I think. French riot police out in force using water canons. It was only months ago they had violent riots, so obviously taking no chances.

Probably the Place de la Republique manif.

The French CRS don’t mess around and water cannons are fairly standard.

There can be local factors in play here that possibly don’t apply in the UK so I completely understand the reasons for the ban.

On the subject of not messing around there were also reports earlier in the week that a few non-nationals (?3) had their residency permits pulled due to what were deemed to be anti-Semitic acts and as a result they were deported back to their country of origin. I’ll see if I can find a link later….