When does terrorism become war?

[mids2019]

Looking at the news this morning I think the media are finding it difficult to register Palestinian attacks as a terrorism event or simply an attack of one state against another.

I suppose whether you view 5000 tickets as a terrorist atrocity or a declaration of war is dependent on your views on whether Palestine can ever be a functioning state. We plainly in Europe would describe such events as terrorism in that civilian populations have been targeted but in the eternally challenged middle East the use of such a word has political connurtations.

Is this a terrorist attack on Israel?

In the 1960's Israel went to war with Palestine in order to expand their territory

Are you for real @Ylvamoon ?!! I can only think this is a wind up.

The 1967 Six Day War: Israel acted first in a preemptive strike because they were working with accurate intelligence that the Arab League were about to annihilate them. In actual fact it was a defensive war. Christ alive does this have to be explained to you?

The war created a fundamental change for Israel. Because it conquered the territories of the West Bank and Gaza, these lands with their millions of Palestinians came under Israeli occupation. Then followed the much discussed Resolution 242. The UN stipulated that Israel should withdraw essentially to the 1967 borders, as part of an overall agreement and a recognition of Israel’s right to live in peace and security. The resolution acknowledged the Arab’s rights to these lands, and Israel’s right to peace and security. Israel expected to trade land for peace. In June 1967, Israeli military leader and politician Moshe Dayan was quoted as saying, “We are waiting for the Arabs’ phone call. They know where to find us.” The answer was given in Khartoum on September, 1967.

The major Arab states rejected the principles of Resolution 242, and announced their policy towards Israel—the three Nos: No recognition, no peace, no negotiations. Israel became the occupier of an angry and unhappy population. Living under occupation is terrible for the occupied. It is not a blessing for the occupier.

Weird post.

They are called terrorists because Hamas are internationally designated as a terrorist group.

I think the real - and more interesting - question your post raises is why the BBC is so woolly-mouthed about using the correct designation and are instead trying to designate the terrorists as mere 'militants'?

And I think we all know the reason for that - the BBC's notorious victim-blaming of the Jewish victims of the attack in Oxford Street recently showed exactly which side they stand on. Antisemitism in the British establishment has always been there. It hasn't gone away.

I agree with you that there is lots of Islamophobia in the world.

And that some on the right in Israel oppose Palestinian rights.

That doesn't make it 'genocide' though - my family were actually murdered in a genocide, so wish they'd been in one that meant their population had grown by 900% in the intervening years? Some 'genocide', eh? ]

It's more than 80 years since the Holocaust, and the numbers of Jews in the world is still 1.4 million less than it was before the Holocaust. Two-thirds of European Jews were wiped out in less than 6 years. That is a genocide.

By labelling a dispute over territory as a 'genocide' you diminish real victims of genocide. Really, you don't need to claim things that are blatantly false to make your point. There's nothing so great about genocide that you need to pretend that Palestinians have experienced one.

They’re still trying to wipe them out, by taking the Palestinian land. Just because it’s not as large scale as the holocaust, doesn’t make it not a genocide.

FFS…I cannot even.

@MNHQ Now will you act and take this thread down. Please. It’s literal poison.

When it becomes profitable. I can't believe so many people actually think battling terrorism with war (killing MORE people, many innocent) acts as a valid solution. Have we learnt nothing after all these years?

A huge reason George Bush gave for the war in the Middle East was due to "weapons of mass destruction" the area was "believed" to possess. There is a video of GB having a genuine joke/giggle about how there never was any weapons of mass destruction, (just google it) and that the main, overriding reason for the "war on terrorism" was for the regions lovely abundance of oil.

The west continues to invade other countries that are resource rich as a strategy to stay top dog... and we are all supposed to reflect on how bad colonialism was and how we badly exploited other countries... I think alot of people need to do some thorough investigating, wake the up and realise that we are have never been better at exploiting and destroying other nations.

Some on the right. Practically the whole fucking government!!!

Disabled people like me were also murdered and tested upon during the same genocide but you don’t see me and other disabled bringing that up, on threads about disabled people.

no one is denying the holocaust or the effect it had and has on Jewish people.

sorry, dispute over a territory. You’re minimising that massively. It is a systematic wiping out of the Palestinian land. What are the Palestinians meant, live in the sea, in the air, on nothing. How can stand by and support a government that is wiping out a whole state.

you clearly have no regard for the ordinary Palestinians, not Hamas, just the bog standard Palestinians that just so happen to live there.

I know it’s such poison, all the hate against the Palestinians.

Take this thread down because you have differing opinions on what constitutes genocide? Seems a little extreme (though I do tend to agree more with your definition here, to be fair).

By all means, keep deleting actual anti-semitic posts here though. The vast majority are not as far as I can see.

By who? Hamas in my opinion. They perpetuate this to gain money and power. They subjugate the population of Gaza more than the Israelis. All that aid money meant to rebuild schools and hospitals. How many are built ? None. Arafat died a billionaire. Not bad for a small state politician. Or should we say gangster.

@Truthisbetterthanlies - the area was occupied by the Romans .... not at all an independent state.

As for Jewish people themselves, they are present all over the world, same as other religious faith groups.

My post only refers to the governance of the area, not individual population groups - as I am sure Christians and Muslims are also part of the population in the area.
As such, there wasn't an independent Jewish state 2000 for years.

the area was occupied by various invaders including Crusaders, Ottomans and the British.... until 1948.

While @Truthisbetterthanlies has not actually answered my question directly, the content of her posts are very telling.

Total minimising of the suffering inflicted on the Palestinian people by the Israeli authorities, but either it's not that bad or they're doing it to themselves. Ok.

The Holocaust was barbaric and an absolute blight on human history. I don't see a single person here denying it or dismissing it (if anyone did they would be roundly criticised and rightly so). I'm not sure why that claim is being made, it's again unfairly putting words into people's mouths.

Have you ever heard of Iran, hamas and hezbollah. Give them a quick google perhaps.

<speaks slowly> Yes dear, and before the Romans conquered them, it was an independent Jewish state. Contrary to what you claimed.

There were ALWAYS Jews living in Israel, over the last 2000 years.

I notice also that you don't comment on the fact that there has NEVER been a Palestinian State. None. Zero. Never in history. Not even 2000 years ago. Never.

Strangely that isn't something you consider worth discussing. I wonder why.

interesting tactics with taking hostages. Presumably they will keep them in places likely to be bombed by Israel. Whilst we know Israel had no qualms in bombing a Palestinian hospital or indeed a school full of Palestinian children, will they be so keen to bomb when it might kill an Israeli citizen?

"Wiping out a whole state"? What state? What are you talking about??

Palestine. They’re wiping out the Palestinians land.

The Palestinian state, whose land keeps on being stolen, slowly wiping them from the face of the earth, I assume.

What was the Israeli government’s long term plan? Wild to think they thought they could lock 2 million people into what has been described by the HRW as an open air prison, directly next to millions of other people who agree with this due to difference in ethnicity, and then expect them to be understanding and civil 🤯

I think you need to share your view with Hamas

‘Hamas is an acronym of the Arabic phrase حركة المقاومة الإسلامية or Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement".

’Hamas, an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (“Islamic Resistance Movement”), was founded by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, a Palestinian cleric who became an activist in local branches of the Muslim Brotherhood after dedicating his early life to Islamic scholarship in Cairo.’

Hamas are specifically linked to Sunni faith groups within Islam.

What question have you asked me directly? I haven't answered as I haven't seen one??

Feel free to post a question and I'll try to answer.

As you think it's very bad to 'minimise the suffering of the Palestinian people', which is surely true, I'd love to hear you condemn Hamas and Fatah for their refusal to allow free elections at all in the West Bank/Gaza, for their murder of LGBT Palestinians and political rivals, and their treatment of women.

Or is it that actually you couldn't care less about Palestinian rights unless you can use it to attack Jews Israel?

"As you think it's very bad to 'minimise the suffering of the Palestinian people', which is surely true, I'd love to hear you condemn Hamas and Fatah for their refusal to allow free elections at all in the West Bank/Gaza, for their murder of LGBT Palestinians and political rivals, and their treatment of women."

Honestly, it's like reading Russian propaganda...Deflect, deny, accuse.

What 'open air prison' would that be?

Would that be Gaza, which has a border with Egypt? 😂

Do explain how Israel gets to control Gaza's border with Egypt? Or why HRW isn't choosing to blame Egypt for the state of affairs, too, only Israel?!!

You couldn't make it up.