Suella Braverman

[CurlewKate]

Does anyone else get Enoch Powell vibes? Makes me shiver....

I suppose it’s similar to Brexit, where people thought everyone they knew was in same camp as them but in the end one side won

I nearly posted the same thing earlier. If there's anything that Brexit taught me, it's not to assume that most people think the way that I and my bubble do.
Since then I've made a point of regularly reading the the media that reflects the section of the population outside of my Guardian or Indy bubble. And believe me, there are a LOT of people who would love to see Braverman as leader and think she's great. Don't kid yourselves that there aren't..

Immigration drove the Brexit vote. And it also built a right wing base.

Yes I didn’t pay much attention back then. Lately I’ve taken more notice, not just here.

I don’t know if SB will stay, I don’t quite get why she’d want to go as some say, getting headlines is likely the aim

But I do think public / SM demand is a factor in these things and the support is there, not on mn but elsewhere

How much idk, but Brexit was immigration and I can’t see that’s abated much atm

No substance to pointing out how hate-filled and cruel Braverman is? Have you been reading her pronouncements over the last year or so?

Polling shows her personal popularity is at 16%, and even that doesn't necessarily mean that the 16% are all people who would necessarily want her as PM. I think she and her followers really over-estimate how much countrywide support she actually has.

DM comments are habitually the flip side of basic rationality and humanity.

IClaudine · Yesterday 12:31
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She may think she is the next leader of the Tories, but she won't win in a leadership contest that goes to a membership vote, no way”

The membership lap up this shit.

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hamstersarse ·
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But none of this is specific - what exactly about what she has said is horrifying”

Oh stop. If you really don’t understand why so many people find this person’s views offensive you need to take a long, hard look at yourself.

It's pretty grim as the Supreme Court is due to rule on Rwanda next week. If that doesn't go in the Government's favour then she might quit then and campaign to come out of the ECHR.

In other words, this has some way to go and get worse.

But anyone who says the police play favourites or the Orange Order is akin to Hamas is not someone who can be Home Secretary; her job is literally to maintain public order not inflame matters.

Yes they do. Word is that Braverman is getting big praise from the membership.

That’s how it goes, both sides think this and stick to their camps, both also vote. Hence Brexit

I don't think a white man could really get away with this bombastic rhetoric. Johnson was vile and has made tasteless remarks but ultimately he's always been a social liberal. Farage has similar views but carefully words things more generally and hides behind a smile and snake oil charm (he also holds no power, Suella is the Home Sec).

The equivalent would be Tommy Robinson.

The Tories know they can be more radical with a female leader/person of colour. The likes of Cameron, Major and Heath were fairly centrist and tolerant.

Braverman and 30p say they are speaking for the silent majority. Call a General Election and prove it. No? Whyever not?

Less than 200,000 very politically motivated people are driving the rhetoric of the governing party. That's way more of a scary echo chamber than social media/mainstream press.

It's hard to see how any party can be a "broad church" with that level of membership

I don't like her necessarily but I am aghast at how much unfettered emotion she riles up in people for things that are really not that bad.

• It is fine to say that we do not want tent cities within our cities
• It is fine to say we do not want to be encouraging Islamic terrorists and it is not exactly clear that all of the people marching 'for Palestine' are not terrorist supporters. There are at least some terrorist supporters (see the organisers) and as a Home Secretary, you would surely have to want none at all if you are responsible for the safety of British citizens (for the Muslims on the thread, I presume you will agree with that)
• It is fine to question an insidious creep of politics into policing, it is literally her job to do that as the police should be non-partisan.

you are so right. I read the Guardian and the Mail to get opposing points of view. The views we hold are a product of the world we see around us and our life experiences much more than any influence in the media..
In my opinion, the views held by 'Mail' readers reflect life as lived by the vast majority of the population, and these views are usually also held by majorities of many other countries.

That's not all she said hamster and you know it.
It's not fine to say its a lifestyle choice to be homeless
It's not fine to say the marchers are similar to Islamist terrorists
It's not fine to imply the Orange marches are also terrorist
It's not fine to say the Met (who work for her) are politically motivated with no evidence at all

@hamstersarse are you familiar with the term “dog whistle”?

Yes bollocks to I don't like her but she has a point or it's moralising. She exercises actual power over all of us. Make a decision. I expect that in polite society her supporters will be very quiet and talk about their "concerns" which means you don't actively get thrown out or called a racist.

It won't necessarily go to a membership vote, in any case. Tory leadership elections often don't. In the last 20 years they've changed leader 6 times. Half of them were chosen by the wider membership (Cameron, Johnson and Truss) and the other half by the MPs.

@hamstersarse SHE is the one wanting direct operational control of the police

The rump of Tory MPs who are left following a general election are likely to be the sorts who will embrace SB as leader of the party.

@saraclara indeed. As a gal originally from a midlands mining town till I was 29 and now living in Bath- I think I understand things quite well from all angles and the problem is that peoples options that haven't been great and were not prepared to move away do often develop a mindset that all would be well if we had no foreigners and that if we got back to an environment of 70s with lots of well paid jobs for working class people and got rid of woke attitudes , all would be well. Bring back the Arthur Daleys and being able to make money on the side etc , what's wrong with overclaiming on expenses- they would do the same in that position. You see it in Lee Anderson- he isn't an outlier- he's very very typical - go and spend an afternoon in somewhere like Sutton in Ashfield or Worksop and listen to the conversations. There is a lot of very disallusioned and deluded people who buy the right wing cool aid- and don't understand why even the Tory's cannot change things - the world has changed, skills needed have changed, some people for whatever reason are happy not to work much in lower paid jobs c and just 'get by' and get their rent paid-.and thats why we have needed foreign labour- it's the same incidentally in lots of other countries too - be it Sweden, USA or UK -

Slowly it will dawn on some that Brexitcwasnt a panacae for all their issues and the fact that many of their daily issues are not down to foreigners (there often aren't that many in these places). It's down to a government who hasn't prioritised vital services, who don't seem to understand due diligence when it comes to public contracts and giving out money to mates and the fact that it's now a country where multinationals aren't that fussed to invest into, as they no longer have single market access.

@Crikeyalmighty you make really good points. we cannot ignore that large swathes of the English working class population feel disenfranchised (here and elsewhere, most notably in the US). deindustrialisation of the UK economy and the massive global changes are not easy to understand even for experts. its far easier to find a scapegoat - foreigners/the EU etc. not sure what the solution is, but ultimately people like suella are exploiting these communities that are left behind and ignored until its time for an election. they are also dismissed from the other side as racists and bigots, rather than addressing the root causes of their concerns - poverty, poor education and lack of opportunities.

@Crikeyalmighty - what they are nostalgic about is the post war world where there was lots of state spending, a working class aristocracy and unions that kept that going.

There are only two reasons why that ever happened imo and that was a) most Conservatives after the war knew very well what extremism did, and that people fight. Not good for making money and b) the most right wing aspects of Conservatives were tamed about unions and the welfare state because of Communism.

Once that USSR collapsed most right wingers saw absolutely no need to be paying for an enfranchised well educated working class in the U.K.

Strangely they still just about need their votes. Good then to blame migrants, anyone who isn't white etc.

And so on ever since 1990. No those days aren't coming back. I expect the racism to get more explicit and tighter laws which dominantly affect minorities in the U.K. if this vote starts to grow.

It’s also happening within some EU countries.

Why some more than others? Perhaps related to politicians’ lack of foresight and low ability when it comes to understanding and listening