What to do about FIL’s driving?

[AdviceNeededPlease11]

PIL have been staying with us for the last week. Over the last couple of years FIL (75) has been having these absences for a couple of minutes at a time where he licks his lips and is entirely unresponsive. He’ll then come back to himself and completely deny it happened and MIL will agree with him as she doesn’t want to push it. Both DH and I have been asking him to get a GP’s appointment since his first episode but he insists he’s fit as a fiddle (he runs 10k a day so is physically fit) and doesn’t need to.

On Tuesday FIL had an episode while o was present and it was really scary. He was completely unresponsive for 20 minutes, just started rocking in his chair. It took over an hour before he could even tell us where he was or what his name is. I kept trying to call an ambulance but MiL was getting hysterical- sobbing, insisting he was just tired, telling me I was being ridiculous and that I had no medical training (she was a healthcare assistant) so she knows he’s fine.

DH didn’t see it and MIL played the whole thing down to him, making out he’d just nodded off while I was there. I think DH believes me but doesn’t want to upset his parents by confronting them and also doesn’t want to admit there’s something clearly wrong with his dad.

The problem is that one Sunday they’re due to drive home - a 9 hour drive and MIL doesn’t drive. DH has offered to drive them but they’ve told him not to be silly, that they’re completely fine and that just because FIL was tired one day it doesn’t mean he can’t drive.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve had a look at reporting an unfit driver via the DVLA but it looks like they need to be driving with a diagnosed condition in order for them to act.

Whatever I do it will cause an enormous shit storm for me but I cannot in good conscience let this man drive for 9 hours when he’s clearly regularly having medical episodes that leave him unable to move, speak or know where he is.

TLDR FIL has been having some kind of absence seizures but won’t see a doctor and is due to drive for 9 hours straight in a few days. He and MIL refusing to admit there’s an issue.

Any suggestions?

Could you ring 111 and they will get someone medical to ring back. They ask you at the beginning if you are phoning re. somebody else, so you can explain your concerns then, and hopefully the call back person will ask to speak to your FIL. He absolutely must not drive until this is resolved.

Surely 111 is a waste of time? They can only recommend that FIL is seen by a doctor, in person.

I was also thinking vascular dementia is a likely risk, and OP's update about the night wandering seems to align with that possibility. Thankfully the licence is revoked and he won't be getting that back without a medical assessment I assume. Once everyone settles from this episode, OP, her DH and family face some difficult times coming to terms with it and planning for the future, including care requirements. Good luck OP! Look for the support you need.

I'm so glad to read your update OP and that your FIL has had his license suspended before he kills anyone or himself.
I hope he gets the assessment and help he needs.
From what it sounds like he's having complex focal seizures. He's needs to be free of those for a year before driving.
My husband has started to have seizures 7 months ago and had to stop driving/surrender his license. Yes it's an inconvenience... but he'd rather not put anyone or himself in danger.

@rookiemere local driving or not your Dad should not be driving.
You should be informing the DVLA, it isn't taking away independence.... it's keeping other people and him safe. You need to take emotion out of this and look at this in black and white.

Report him, do what you can to stop him.
He could easily be in court for manslaughter, not knowing is one, knowing is another.
i’d be fuming if my sons were disabled or killed by a stubborn old man

Read the update.

Wow, she's still in denial? 😦

Denial is a powerful thing… I wonder now this has happened and the police have got involved whether she will start to accept it or dig her heels in further @AdviceNeededPlease11 ? Regardless, it must be an awful time for you all 💐

Sounds very much like something my DH (76) has experienced. He was having TIAs - later diagnosed with CT scans of his head. Your FiL definitely should not be driving and DH has since had his licence revoked. You need to get him see that this is not normal. (But how you do that, is another matter .... good luck).

Out of interest, who noticed he was missing? Was it MIL? Did she get up in a panic wondering where he had gone or did she say that he'd gone for the walk initially?

I think it's the MIL you and your DH need to work on. She sounds scared and in denial (to everyone else but maybe not privately?). I can imagine your DH is worried/scared too that his dad is declining.

It sounds like a really horrible situation that's coming to a head.

@rookiemere
Only local driving? he can just as easily cause an accident in his own street as on a motorway! If it's a concern stop him driving.
I know someone who had that attitude and knocked down two school kids.

Could your DH send that to the GP anyway and ask him/her to find a reason to do a checkup?

This. It must be absolutely terrifying for both of them. I feel desperately sorry for them both.

MIL still doesn’t think there’s a problem - she’s adamant he went for a walk to watch the sunrise and lost track of time.

Gosh, she is really reaching for any explanation other than a health related one isn't she ? I wonder if this is actually the first time this has happened given the ready excuse ? Would DH be able to talk to her on her own and see what has actually been happening ?

Also do you think it is a good idea for them to go home at the moment ? what sort of support network do they have where they live ? I am also worried that once home they will brush it all off as a series of unfortunate incidents due to tiredness/a bug/everyone else being drama llamas. It worries me that he will carry on with his 10k runs and really get lost/get into trouble. Is there any way you could get him put on as a temporary patient at your GP and get him seen asap ?

It’s tricky because although they live close to Bil he works long hours and can’t help them but can keep an eye on them. Mil is very mentally with it but physically weak and can’t stop him from doing what he wants. At least the driving issue has been stopped.

You should try to find out what would be required to get some sort of car service that could collect your MiL/FiL from their home and bring them to church/shopping/whatever if such a volunteer service exists in their village/town.
Also see if it is possible to get some form of home help for them. Would a meals on wheels thing be something that they would be open to having delivered?

You need to sit BiL and your DH down and say that they must step up now that their parents are getting older and needing more care on a daily basis. This is not going to fall to you as the woman in the equation and you wouldn't want to be stepping on their toes anyway. As the sons here, they have to do more to help their parents. If they can't or won't then they have to start investigating sheltered accommodation or a home for them to be safe in. It is very easy to see things when you're that little bit more removed from the emotional stake that you might have in it. I am only referring to your BiL and your DH as you haven't mentioned if they have a sister in the equation but the same conversation would be had with any siblings (imo).

Also see if it is possible to get some form of home help for them. Would a meals on wheels thing be something that they would be open to having delivered?

They’re in their mid 70s, he can run ten miles and she’s sharp as a tack, they don’t need and almost certainly wouldn’t entertain something like this. It would be madness to even suggest it.

The fact is that he can't drive. If she can't drive, then they need to find solutions. My parents thought taxis were a bizarre frivolity for rich people but they got over it and now are ardent taxi fans.

There are solutions.

But the most immediate things are a) finding out what's going on with him and b) getting them both to accept it.

The psychological issues can be much harder to deal with that the logistical or physical ones.

Online shopping would be a practical solution. They can still decide what they want to eat and cook it. I’d put money on him getting his licence back anyway.

My DM has just done the exact same thing and I'm so proud of her, she has decided to get a mobility scooter to keep her local independence. She said she couldn't live with herself if she couldn't brake and hit a pedestrian.

Hi OP, are things a little calmer? You have 100% done the right thing.

It’s all a lot calmer now, thank you. BIL took FIL to minor injuries and he had a CT and MRI scan which seemed clear but even the guys doing the scanning said he had very obvious signs of early dementia. MIL still insisting they can manage. It’s so tricky as MIL is mentally with it but very frail - she can no longer hoover and avoids going upstairs unless completely necessary as it leaves her so breathless after a heart bypass 18 months ago. FIL is physically very fit but seems to be getting dementia.

I think if MIL had a fall or something he would quite possibly not call an ambulance or help her as he sort of just smiles and nods and goes along with everything rather than realising what’s actually happening.

@LookItsMeAgain you’re completely right. I don’t know if it’s because they’re men or because they’re both in denial but neither DH or BIL seem to see that it’s an issue that isn’t going to go away while myself and SIL are both very concerned. I cannot physically organise this help for them from 9 hours away and SIL has young kids, a full time job and has a similar issue with her own parents that she already spends a lot of time trying to sort. It needs to be DH and BIL that does this stuff.

Does the assessment mean your FIL is still banned from driving?