What to do about FIL’s driving?

[AdviceNeededPlease11]

PIL have been staying with us for the last week. Over the last couple of years FIL (75) has been having these absences for a couple of minutes at a time where he licks his lips and is entirely unresponsive. He’ll then come back to himself and completely deny it happened and MIL will agree with him as she doesn’t want to push it. Both DH and I have been asking him to get a GP’s appointment since his first episode but he insists he’s fit as a fiddle (he runs 10k a day so is physically fit) and doesn’t need to.

On Tuesday FIL had an episode while o was present and it was really scary. He was completely unresponsive for 20 minutes, just started rocking in his chair. It took over an hour before he could even tell us where he was or what his name is. I kept trying to call an ambulance but MiL was getting hysterical- sobbing, insisting he was just tired, telling me I was being ridiculous and that I had no medical training (she was a healthcare assistant) so she knows he’s fine.

DH didn’t see it and MIL played the whole thing down to him, making out he’d just nodded off while I was there. I think DH believes me but doesn’t want to upset his parents by confronting them and also doesn’t want to admit there’s something clearly wrong with his dad.

The problem is that one Sunday they’re due to drive home - a 9 hour drive and MIL doesn’t drive. DH has offered to drive them but they’ve told him not to be silly, that they’re completely fine and that just because FIL was tired one day it doesn’t mean he can’t drive.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve had a look at reporting an unfit driver via the DVLA but it looks like they need to be driving with a diagnosed condition in order for them to act.

Whatever I do it will cause an enormous shit storm for me but I cannot in good conscience let this man drive for 9 hours when he’s clearly regularly having medical episodes that leave him unable to move, speak or know where he is.

TLDR FIL has been having some kind of absence seizures but won’t see a doctor and is due to drive for 9 hours straight in a few days. He and MIL refusing to admit there’s an issue.

Any suggestions?

I went through this with my in-laws. FIL had had a series of TIA's but his GP said he was fit to drive. MIL had stopped driving some years previously.

I was living on tenterhooks (I was the only family member as their only son had died). Neither of them (especially MIL) wanted to use taxis or buses 🙄

"Fortunately" a more serious health set back led to him surrendering his licence.

Can you disable the car and send them home on the train for a short term fix? That would give you more time?

Failing that I'd be tempted to lie and say you'd seen him having another episode and again send them home on the train as he clearly wasn't well enough to drive.....

A nine hour drive would literally be an accident waiting to happen the way things are.

God, isn’t it incredible what family/spouses do and say when they’re deep in denial? Your MIL needs a shake.

You need to cause a shitstorm. He’s having seizures FFS.

I tried reporting an alcoholic relative with a history of having seizures and blackouts behind the wheel to the DVLA. Nothing happened… apart from yet another prang.

You did the right thing by locking the gates. Can you take away his keys? Then report him to his GP.

I really hope he has another when he you are there and before he leaves, you must call an ambulance no matter how resistant your MIL for their sake and the other road users.

Difficult for you, but yes, it's so, so dangerous as you say. It's bloody annoying how they can't see it.

Something utterly awful happened in Edinburgh a few years ago because of an elderly driver. I can't even write it.

Please don't let him drive.

They sound like absence seizures my stepson has them and he later had grand mal seizures and diagnosed with epilepsy. Try and get him seen ASAP

Good for you OP. Keep standing your ground. They are obviously all terrified he's got something really bad so trying to pretend to themselves that these episodes are not so serious, when obviously they are. You will have to be the voice of reason here. And unfortunately may be vindicated if he does get diagnosed with something serious, as does seem quite likely from what you've said.

You think causing a shit storm is bad?

Imagine if he killed someone (or an entire family) on the drive home?- how bad would you feel then- I am betting it will be far worse than causing a family argument.

Stand your ground, cause the shit storm, report to local police. Do whatever it takes to keep him off the road. He sounds like what's happening to my mil, my dh husband visits her and says she has complete absences for a few minutes and when she does recover it takes another few minutes for her to be really aware of where she is etc. She had a stroke two years ago but has refused to attend any follow up appointments. Thankfully she doesn't drive. Unfortunately it looks like its up to you to be the sensible person in your family, it's a burden but not doing anything and there being tragic consequences will be a heavier burden.

The DVLA reporting is anonymous. It's for anyone whose driving is feared unsafe by reason of some type of incapacity. And they do check.

Take their car keys. Please. He could kill someone. Let them kick off. It’s better than someone losing loved ones.

DH " thinks you're overreacting?" Well now he is being as negligent as his DM and DF combined. Now it is up to you OP to be the reasonable one in the family. Take the keys and sell the car. FIL 's driving days are over.

Keep the gates locked, hide his keys. Cause a shitstorm. He cannot, must not, drive.

It's not about him, it's about other people.

Think of it this way - no driver actually goes out with a decision made in their mind to knock someone down while they’re behind the wheel of the car, it’s always an accident. How many times could these accidents have been avoided and lives saved?

Next time he’s having a seizure, record it while phoning for an ambulance. Do not listen to MiL as she’s too close to her husband to remain impartial. Same goes for your DH.
One scenario would be that he has some tests done to determine why he is having these episodes and it is only tiredness.

Totally agree with everything PPs have said, he could kill himself and MIL or someone else.
I am currently not allowed to drive after having seizures which turned out to be due to a brain tumour, most of which was removed in February.
I think the rule is that you automatically lose your licence after a seizure and can't drive again till 12 months after the last seizure.

My friend in his 50’s had a seizure whilst driving to the local tip and lost control of the car. It was already going downhill and careered straight into a large concrete pillar and killed him. A passer-by who saw the accident, ran to the car and spoke to him through the window and said he looked at her before he died.

According to his wife, it was the first time he’d ever had a seizure and the coroners report seemed to back that up. The whole thing was horribly shocking and unexpected but Thank Fuck there was nobody else injured.

You cannot risk your FIL driving, even for a very short distance. He’s risking his own life, your MIL’s and anyone else that happens to be on that stretch of road at the time.

You need to get your DH onboard and he has to get through to his mum that this isn’t a good idea. The fact is his mum does know what’s happened but is in denial by saying it only happened because he was tired. DH must make her see that sitting around at yours isn’t anywhere near as tiring as a 9hr drive will be!! 🤦🏻‍♀️

I would report him anonymously.

And next time he becomes unresponsive, I would video him on your phone.

I agree, he needs to be stopped from driving no matter what the fallout is. Someone's life may depend on it. It is a HUGE loss of independence when someone can no longer simply get in their car and go which is why so many elders refuse to acknowledge their limitations. But sometimes it just has to happen. I was lucky that my parents both gave up driving voluntarily due to health issues and that there were 5 of us available to drive them around so I don't think they ever really felt the 'loss' of their driving 'privileges'. But for elders who live far from family or obliging friends, it's a double 'loss' for them. They've been reminded that 'they're not what they used to be' and their freedom of movement has been drastically curtailed, especially if they live where public transportation, cabs, and/or senior transport services are lacking or expensive.

Years ago my grandad and DH's grandad wouldn't listen. Mum and her siblings were afraid to do anything so two of my cousins who lived on the same street and watched his 'near misses' with trash bins, fire hydrants, and kerbs contacted the (US) DMV and reported him as a dangerous driver. They called him in and made him take a 'behind the wheel' test, and he failed. His license was revoked and that luckily was that. DH's grandad was asked by his children to stop driving and he flatly refused. He was cited twice by the police for 'unsafe driving' but it wasn't until he ended up in a ditch (no injury) that the police had the DMV revoke his license. Did it stop him? Did it fuck!! He kept on driving until my FiL and BiL actually went and 'stole' his keys and hid his truck! So, yes, report your FiL by all means, but don't be completely sure the loss of his license will stop him driving!

I agree with this. How could you live with yourself if he kills a child?

Stay strong OP. I was once in a similar position and had to be the vilified bad guy of the family. but lives were at risk.
They should get the train home.

I agree with those who are saying you need to hide his keys and actually prevent him from driving. He's clearly not fit to drive and the consequences of any accident could be devastating.

I couldn’t, hence me locking the gates and trying to find a way to legally stop him.

I agree with pp you need to cause a shit storm op.

A neighbours friend began having similar absences and drove 70 metres down a track at the end of out street, destroying sheds and greenhouses with his foot on the accelerator hard all the way. Turns out he'd been having them months but denied it.

Unfortunately he continued to drive and was killed in a car accident a few months later, fortunately no one else involved.

Can dh drive them on Saturday and stay over, to return on Sunday?

Your dh needs to do it. Ask him how he would feel if he waves them off and the two of them and several others end up dead. Tell him he had to put his foot down and drive them home.

If no one's listening you could inform the police but how seriously you would be taken as a non medical person I do not know. Other option would be dh insist he goes to doctors before he leaves and only drives if given all clear.