Things girls need to be taught as soon as possible.

[Gettingbysomehow]

I'm sure this has been done before but:

Men are just ordinary people, they aren't going to rescue you, be your soul mate or necessarily be around for ever, they are not princes from fairy stories so don't live your life waiting for that fairy tale marriage.

Fairy tales don't exist, neither do happy ever afters, romance forever or any of those other things we are fed from a young age.

Never rely on a man, get a career, be ambitious.

Don't have more children than you can comfortably afford to raise on your own.

If you are very lucky you may get a nice man who you can rub along with for the rest of your life but 50% plus of marriages don't last.

Be selfish. Don't sacrifice your hopes and dreams for someone else, be who you want to be. Have boundaries. Have self respect. Don't allow yourself to be treated badly or taken for granted.

Learn how to manage your own life, bills, finances, everything.

The only person you can truly rely on is yourself.

Be happy, do things that make you happy.

I agree with you mostly OP.
Someone on mumsnet said ‘oh to have the confidence of a mediocre man’ and I have repeated this to my Dds. Listen, debate, analyse. It’s not how people say it, it’s what they are saying.

That’s the ‘gift’ Boris Johnson gave them - he sounded intelligent and charismatic but actually he was just talking bollocks and was a narcissistic fool.

There are also some lovely men out there partnershipwise and they may not be the best looking/ have a degree etc. They may not be the ‘whole perfect package’. The most important thing is if they have the same values as you - and how caring they would be with children. This means there would be more equality in the relationship.

I'm curious what this actually teaches kids.

Men are just ordinary people, they aren't going to rescue you, be your soul mate or necessarily be around for ever, they are not princes from fairy stories so don't live your life waiting for that fairy tale marriage. absolutely. But the same is true for women and little girls who grow up gay and boys who grow up waiting to be looked after.

Fairy tales don't exist, neither do happy ever afters, romance forever or any of those other things we are fed from a young age. boys, don't feel like you have to try to commit. Happy ever after is a lie so if you want to bail at the first hurdle, she's expecting it.

Never rely on a man, get a career, be ambitious There's no one in your life you can trust. Girls it doesn't matter what you want, it only matters what you earn. Guys, you don't have to be reliable and there, women don't need you to be.

Don't have more children than you can comfortably afford to raise on your own. So if you're working class, women never have babies. They're for well-to-do women who can work full time, pay full time childcare, and still have a comfortable life. Men, don't feel you're expecting step up and provide for your kids.

If you are very lucky you may get a nice man who you can rub along with for the rest of your life but 50% plus of marriages don't last. women, he'll probably be a shit you have to divorce so don't expect better. Men, we all know most of you are utter knobs.

Be selfish. Don't sacrifice your hopes and dreams for someone else women, compromise makes you pathetic. Which means no relationship will ever work. We all need to compromise. Also probably best to not have kids, that's a massive bucket of compromise layered with re-evaluation of dreams. Also, please note, hope and dreams of being a SAHM, having lots of kids etc don't count, stop being pathetic.
be who you want to be. Have boundaries. Have self respect. Don't allow yourself to be treated badly or taken for granted a rare shard of sanity

Learn how to manage your own life, bills,finances, everything. two shards. Whoop.

The only person you can truly rely on is yourself. no one needs to try to be reliable, no one needs to dig deep and ensure because no one should ever expect anything from anyone

Be happy, do things that make you happy. women, no one needs to give a single fuck about anyone else. Take what you want from anyone, do what you want to anyone . It's fine so long as you're happy. Men are shit on your shoe and they should never aspire to more.

similar messages are given to girls, incl the fairy tale wedding stuff (just look at the marriage from the RF, stories from Disney etc… its everywhere). They are hard to fight against.

I couldn't disagree more. Where are your DC seeing this?

My kids can distinguish between made-up stories (which can be critiqued) and real-world scenarios. In the real world, they see plenty of examples that differ from this.

I don't believe it's hard to fight against. I do believe it has to be an ongoing dual oven

• dialogue

But then women are told to give it all up and stay home and keep on having kids because that is what women are for, going with that no idea why women go to uni or get jobs in the first place and no I don't in anyway agree with any of this

This is depressing and not even that true. Might as well say it’s a dog eat dog world and look out for #1.

I did!!

dc1 even looked at me when he said and then added ‘please don’t go and see Mr XX - his teacher - because he knew very well I’d be unhappy about such comment.
Doesn’t mean those things aren’t said. In a very clear and direct way or in a more subtle way.

fwiw dc1 is now an adult and yes he talks about misandry a lot too….

You haven't read my posts fully then.

I had - and always have had - a professional role, and a network, family & friends.

None of it mattered when I was in an abusive marriage. Of course ultimately having a job helped me exit. But to counter abuse or the potential for it, that's linked to core values & self-belief.

But the ‘make sure you can support yourself and any children you have’ is just telling girls it’s the woman’s responsibility to raise her children by herself. There is nothing in there about the fathers responsibility to support any children he may have. In addition, this isn’t something you can make sure of. You can think you can afford your children before you have them, but all it takes is a bit of bad luck and suddenly you are struggling. So it’s setting up girls to fail and then feel like it is their fault when it isn’t.

children don’t make the difference though.

Thats why when telling a story of a male nurse and a female doctor to a class if 6yo they retell the story with a female nurse and a male doctor.

Even that young, children have absorbed those ideas of what women can and can’t do (and men too) and they are extremely stereotypical/sexist.

then women are told to give it all up and stay home and keep on having kids because that is what women are for, going with that no idea why women go to uni or get jobs in the first place and no I don't in anyway agree with any of this

What are you talking about? Who says any of that?

@RedAndWhiteCarnations

It's a shame your kids had such poor examples from teachers - honestly I've never seen by DC witness that kind of casual sexism.

*my DC, not 'by'

Be aware of biological, hormonal and emotional imperatives.

Sexual attraction doesn't care for logic, reason or even your safety.

That craving for a baby? It's hormones, instinct, emotions, not because he is necessarily the right man to have a safe and happy life with.

No craving for a baby? That's fine. Don't let somebody else convince you to have a baby because it's what they want - because you're the one who will be doing at the very least the first nine months, taking all the physical impact and risks, never mind whatever the actual percentage is you'll need to do for the next eighteen years and the lifetime beyond that.

If you've had a lousy home life as a child, that doesn't mean the first person who comes along to show you a few scraps of affection or at least a vague semblance of liking you some of the time is right for you. You deserved more as a child and you deserve more as an adult.

Don't be a rescuer or wait to be rescued yourself.

Prioritise;

Looking after your teeth.
Looking after your eyes.
Looking after your feet.
Looking after your skin.
Looking after your sleep.

This means brush/floss/dentist, optician, shoes/socks that fit/taking care of the skin and nails, sunblock and body moisturiser - and prioritising the best bed, bedding and safe sleeping environment over what visitors may see.

Try really hard to eat vegetables.

Learn how things work - even if it's only to know when you need to get somebody else in to deal with it,

Can I move to the utopia of respect and equality many Mumsnetters seem to live in?

This is so true. I get fed up of reading on here that if you don’t have a “career” you’re either worthless or useless.

Neither my husband nor I had/have anything approaching a career. Neither of us were academic or ambitious enough. We have, however, worked all our adult lives and paid our bills and given our kids a good life. They are now adults who, again, will not have high flying careers, but will be perfectly happy in their “crappy” retail jobs.

I’m not sure where all these 6-figure career women think they would eat or shop if no one just had a job.

How do you recognise this?
When is one actually a doormat?
I think I am quite kind and nice and thoughtful but maybe everyone else thinks I am a mug

Sounds like this is straight from a Julia Quinn Regency romance.

Life is better if you maintain a healthy weight, but don't be obsessive about it.

Nah, once you're in and start picking holes the place will be fucked 🤣

For teens and older. No sex without a condom! No exceptions.

So what did you say re the shopping? What did you and DH model when you both took them shopping?

Why did they think your DH was incapable? How often did he forget to pick them up from after school club?

My boys might think the first altho I'd try and rephrase it as "I" and "Dad" rather than "all men and all women" . They'd never believe the latter because their father isn't incapable, doesn't forget them, looks after them for whole weekends when I'm away where they have probably stricter boundaries than with me but more freedom but less indulgence. So different techniques, same outcome as when I have them alone.

They see Daddy doing nappies, bedtimes, dinner, washing. Their peers Dad's are a mixed bag but they Def see other Dad's do school run and be school trip helps. They see him have a loving relationship with his mother who's an important part of our life. If the 3 yo boys ask their favourite girl at nursery for a hug (she's 2) and she says no it is enforced. She's praised for being clear. They're praised for asking and listening.

Do I think they'll be perfect men? No chance. But then I'm not a perfect woman. But I refuse to throw my hands up, give in and support teaching both sexes that all men are total shits who want to fuck you and fuck off.

If I take nothing else from this thread, I'm taking this:

get a taxi home, even if you have no money on you. Don't take risks with your safety. There is always taxi fare in the kitchen. Use it. We keep it there so you can always get home safely.

That's the type of advice I want to pass onto my children.

I don't think anyone actually thinks we're anywhere near, just that you surely keep TRYING towards it, not teach girls that men are all dickhead and you should only have a child if you can afford to put them through private school and University single handed whilst working full time and making sure you're also entirely present in their lives. Whilst teaching men they shouldn't ever try to be decent cos they're not, they're worthless shit who hate women and should be kicked into the gutter.

Absolutely. Mine are too young for taxis alone but that's a parenting rule I will keep.