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CountryStore · 13/09/2023 09:07

He clearly attacks her. He clearly puts his hands around her throat. He's clearly a really big guy. Well done to her for having the presence of mind to try and hit him back.

She's defending herself, or is that not allowed now?
Anyone who thinks what he did was justified in any way needs to think about why they're saying that

LoseLooseLucy · 13/09/2023 09:08

My dh is bigger, broader, stronger than me. He is stocky and all muscle. If I were to punch him, it wouldn't do anything

Thats the case for most women who are in a relationship with a man isn’t it?
You could still hurt them with an unexpected headbutt or a swift kick to the balls. A punch on his upper arm wouldn’t have the same impact but let’s not pretend we’re all incapable of hurting someone if we caught them unexpectedly.

Positive41 · 13/09/2023 09:08

parfaitamour · 13/09/2023 00:40

Having watched the video of the incident, the man was escorting her back into the shop after she helped herself to some products, AKA shoplifting, she then used a shopping basket to hit him round the head several times, and then he started to get violent as well with her, hand around her neck to restrain her. Both of them being violent.
No white people people involved.
However the lady was creating a scene to start with. She started the violence.
Am I condoning any of the violence? Nope, but she is not some utterly blameless customer.

Agree

She started it and was physically attacked the shop owner.

CauliflowerBlue · 13/09/2023 09:10

I can’t believe anyone, much less a woman centred website, is defending a man putting his hands around a woman’s throat!

The shop keeper himself it was a disagreement about a refund. He says nothing about shoplifting.

Even if she had shoplifted, a proportionate response is not trying to murder her.

Whatswhatwhichiswhich · 13/09/2023 09:15

By all reports she deserved it. But to the PP who said it wasn’t racist because there was no white people involved - brown, black, Asian, whatever, they can all be racist. Look at what’s happening in china with the detention camps. However this seems a simple case of two idiots getting violent and aggressive and the pair of them deserving each other.

littleducks · 13/09/2023 09:17

@CountryStore that's what I thought initially just from article then the additional videos show her picking up basket and hitting over head with it and then he grabs at her neck and she hits him more.

Some if the videos have audio, presumably phone ones not it didn't seem to add much info

PiIlock · 13/09/2023 09:17

Characterbuilding · 13/09/2023 00:48

People do realise that "non-white" people can be racist toward black people?
(in many scenarios and countries black people are frequently treated appallingly by other races).

Yes, anyone of any race can be racist.

These hair shop owners sometimes follow you around the store. Equally, customers can treat shop owners like lesser beings.

It seems in this case, that he had his hands on her shoulders. She whacked him to get free and then strangled her. Both behaved poorly but no excuse to throttle a woman.

I think there can be racial tensions between both parties in this case, frankly.

saxamaxa · 13/09/2023 09:21

When there isn't much policing going around ( thanks tories) especially when it comes to shoplifting and theft around the country, this is what happens when a shop owner takes justice in their own hands. The shop owner was wrong to have manhandled it in this way however the woman isn't innocent.

Mercibuckets · 13/09/2023 09:28

Fucking hell! Has mumsnet been invaded by trolls, thickos or just racists?

In what world is it ever okay to throttle someone? Whether that person is a shoplifter (or not a shoplifter as is the case here).

In what world can a violent assault of a black woman not possibly be racist because the perpetrator isn’t white?

In what world do we blame the victim? Or do we blame victims if they are not the right kind of victim?

Seriously? For fucks sake!

pepino · 13/09/2023 09:28

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 13/09/2023 00:04

The report makes this sound racist, but the perpetrator is not white.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen so you think that only white people can be racist? That's bullshit. Anyone can be racist and anyone can experience racism.

LoseLooseLucy · 13/09/2023 09:36

In what world is it ever okay to throttle someone? Whether that person is a shoplifter (or not a shoplifter as is the case here).
I want to say I’m shocked people find it acceptable in any way, but sadly I’m not.
No doubt it would be totally unreasonable if it happened to their daughter/sister/self.

Whatswhatwhichiswhich · 13/09/2023 09:42

@Mercibuckets the woman attacked him first, he was acting in self defence. It is always ok for anyone to act in self defence, especially when the woman was trying to batter him around the head with a shopping basket! No wonder so many men don’t report violence against them from women with the amount of people thinking he was in the wrong for defending himself!

Hermittrismegistus · 13/09/2023 09:44

the woman attacked him first, he was acting in self defence

Since when is almost strangling someone an act of self defence?!

EasternStandard · 13/09/2023 09:46

littleducks · 13/09/2023 09:00

It's really hard to tell exactly what happened as not all videos are time stamped.

But it looks like 1st video was one where she was walking out he was blocking her, his hands raised on front off chest she had arm full off stuff (refund/stolen no evidence). She picks up basket and starts using as a weapon, hitting him over head.

Then one inside shop where he is holding her by neck and she is hitting over head with basket to point handle breaks off.

Then I think the one where she is chasing him behind till and hitting him on head with basket handle.

However video from just the guardian article makes it look very different.

I’ve only seen the video in the op, which does look shocking, but anyone investigating will need to see all of them to determine what happened

HadrianRich · 13/09/2023 09:47

Having your throat grabbed from behind - utterly terrifying. Completely unacceptable.

Barbiesback · 13/09/2023 09:47

@parfaitamour I've not watched the footage. I'm just reading your post and others. I think the shop owner lost control of the left situation once his neck were round someone's throat. There is self defence and defending your shop and then there is taking things too far.

Whatswhatwhichiswhich · 13/09/2023 09:48

@Hermittrismegistus is she alive and well? Did she need hospital treatment? No? Then she wasn’t strangled she was restrained and kept at arms length after having already bashed him over the head with a shopping basket.

FirstYouGetTheMoney · 13/09/2023 09:50

SoRainbowRhythms · 13/09/2023 06:24

No man should lay hands on any woman. Ever. I can't believe there's even a sniff of defence for him.

So no male police arresting females, no males stepping in if a woman is assaulting someone?

Why not?

LegendsBeyond · 13/09/2023 09:50

She’s not exactly innocent is she? I know local shopkeepers here are getting sick of people shoplifting and the police not doing a thing. I bet he’s sick of it.

PiIlock · 13/09/2023 09:52

Whatswhatwhichiswhich · 13/09/2023 09:48

@Hermittrismegistus is she alive and well? Did she need hospital treatment? No? Then she wasn’t strangled she was restrained and kept at arms length after having already bashed him over the head with a shopping basket.

She shouldn't have bashed him. Up until that point, he had his hands on her shoulders to escort her back in.

But he definitely did strangle her. Strangulation is an act, you don't have to kill to strangle. Maybe you refer to it as choking. Whatever, he lost it and took it way too far.

After she slammed his head, he could have pushed her. That could be self defence. You can't choke someone to the point they can't talk and say that's justified.

PenLidsOnTheFloor · 13/09/2023 09:53

LegendsBeyond · 13/09/2023 09:50

She’s not exactly innocent is she? I know local shopkeepers here are getting sick of people shoplifting and the police not doing a thing. I bet he’s sick of it.

He strangled her. He put his hands around her throat.

How is potential shoplifting a defence for that?

grayhairdontcare · 13/09/2023 10:01

I think the fact that numerous posters are trying to justify violence against this woman,shows what a fucked up shitty sexist, misogynistic world we now live in

ToBeOrNotToBee · 13/09/2023 10:06

Newsflash.
Racism isn't just something done by white people.

Christ. Can't believe people even still think this. Travel the world, speak to people from other cultures, you'll recognise that racism is found in all corners of the world.

Jellycats4life · 13/09/2023 10:07

Of course the shop owner’s violent response wasn’t acceptable, but it feels like this is symptomatic of yet another breakdown in society.

The police don’t respond to thefts. John Lewis chairman, Dame Sharon White said the other day that the British high street is a “looting ground” for shoplifters. I’m not surprised that small business owners want to take matters into their own hands. What else are they expected to do?

Phillipson · 13/09/2023 10:09

yes, the whole shoplifting debate is a red herring distracting people from the real issue here of how violent he was. Strangulation isn’t the appropriate method of restraint. If he was just trying to retrieve his items, he could have surely pulled them out her hand with his strength. He’s strong enough to win a tug of war. His focus wasn’t the merchandise but to attack her.

also the 3 videos posted in the twitter link above are cropped/edited. There’s longer and clearer footage. I don’t think the full cctv has been released, it’s weird how any cctv has even been released. Did the shop post it online?