Lucy Letby

[Pinkyandtheose]

I went to post on the thread I was on yesterday but it said it's not taking any new replies. I went to look for another thread but I couldn't find one.

Why did she do it, does anyone know?
Apparantly there was an affair with a consultant. Is that true?

Did she do it for attention from him?
Or was he not fully available for her and she did it to try and hurt him and frame him and punish him?

It's horrific what she did and families have lost their babies and other families left with life long conditions to deal with.

She put her colleagues in an awful position too, time and time again where they had to deal with the sudden deterioration of babies and many of them were doing well and then someone probably a doctor or consultant had to explain to parents about the death of their baby while not really fully understanding why themselves until a pattern emerged and their suspicions grew.

This is my thinking. Her parents were quite overprotective and stifling. There seemed to be high expectations of LL as the only child and they were heavily invested in her success, as demonstrated by them posting an over the top announcement in the local paper when she passed her exams. She was close to them and benefitted from their praise and love. But as a result of their over involvement, she failed to grow up properly hence the babyish diary, the apparent lack of romantic relationships and holidaying three times a year with them in Torquay. She developed a deep resentment about this and acted this out in a catastrophic way. The murders became a way she could take back control and power in her life and not be nice Lucy doing what everyone wanted. She revelled in the grief of her victims parents as a way to feel she was punishing her own parents and an attempt unconsciously to separate from them.

@Urchina I am sure there will be either multiple successful compensation litigations, or even perhaps a redress scheme set up (one has been called for by solicitors for some of the families). It's not the "NHS managers" who would pay though, it is NHS Resolution (the insurers).

Yes, but it would be more of a deterrent if people had to pay out of their own pocket. The Resolution wing should not take any more funds to cover for these. So I am looking for a precedent that penalizes criminal negligence.

Good grief, the science site is American.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lucy-letby-legal-defence-appeal-science-on-trial-nurse-killer-b1102723.html

The compensation claims, especially for the surviving children who are catastrophically damaged, will come in at figures no ordinary person could ever pay. Those £1 million pension pots wouldn’t touch the sides.

They should all contribute to the final sum. Pre-arranged official apologies don't count.

I do understand the “need” to know why because it’s horrifying to think a medical professional you would blindly trust to come in and perform minor medical procedures/feeding etc was acting against your child’s best interests and actively trying to do the harm.

Even in the abstract when it’s not directly related to you it’s sickening as you can’t help but put yourself in that scenario - thinking about the times when your DC were in hospital etc. it takes away that trust and reassurance that we take for granted.

but as other posters have said, speculation is futile. We are never going to know unless she decides to share why she did it.

Don’t worry, OP, you’re fine. There is a cohort here trying to get every thread about LL deleted, not sure why.

I think LL always meant to kill babies. I think there is something very suspicious about her determination to:

become a neonatal nurse as a student because she had a difficuly birth herself
work with the sickest babies
get back into working with the sickest babies after death of two babies in quick succession at Chester because that's what she did at the Liverpool hospital
get back into neonatal unit in the same hospital in 2017 after being moved into ad admin role due to distrust
to be present when parents were mourning their dead baby, when they just wanted some privacy

As to her reasons, I don’t think they go that deep:

• she was often bored on shift, telling colleagues she wants to be with the sickest babies, not feeding the babies in nurseries 2-4
• she thrived on the drama of resuscitations, and getting the doctors in the room where she could show what a good nurse she is
• she enjoyed stalking the families she devastated so she is sadistic and enjoys seeing people in pain
• she was escalating the methods of her kills, going from inserting air, to inserting milk and air, to inserting insulin, and finally to inflicting trauma such as pushing tubes hard into babies throats and potentially smothering, so she was clearly enjoying the physical act of inflicting trauma
• Whilst competent she wasn’t particularly intelligent, as shown by her spelling of basic words at times

She’s your garden variety, beige, shallow, psychopath.

I also think there was another side to her that wanted to get stopped. Her notes claiming "I am evil I did this" and lots of "help me". She never hid these from the police and would have known they were coming and would search her. Even after her first arrest and before her 2nd arrest she made more notes that she left clearly for them to find.
Also I understand that she told her friend not to come to her trial. Surely one aspect of her defence could have been a character witness, her friend dawn came forward after her trial stating she would not believe it unless LL told her. I am no legal expert but from what I understand it's the defendants choice if they want to bring certain witnesses forward?

I think the murders were like a compulsion, could not help herself and she knew this was wrong, like many psychopaths who murder, they know what they are doing is wrong but they cannot and do not stop. Beyond that I don't think we will ever understand the actual reasons behind the murders and attempted murders, even if she comes forward and tells us.

@Orangebadger

I agree with what you’re saying but the bit on a character witness is pointless I think; psychopaths (if that’s what she is) are master manipulators. Whilst her friend ‘knew’ her for years LL was acting a part, intentionally or otherwise and showed people a side of her she wanted to project. That may/not be her true self, so someone coming forward saying it’s totally out of a character isn’t evidence of anything.

I feel sorry for her friend, who seems a nice person and has been hoodwinked. Looking at the psychology of people who are presented with very different facts to what they believe as it’s inconceivable to them they could have got it so wrong, it’s common for them to dig in and try to think of all possible alternatives. It’s been written about loads with COVID, Donald Trump etc. and it follows the pattern of what the friend is doing.

”I won’t believe it unless she says so”. So whilst miscarriages of justice do happen, the consultants, police, CPS and an independent jury have all deemed her guilty yet she can’t believe it - as it is unbelievable you were friends with a serial killer.

We have different legal system in Scotland, a relative in COPFS, doubts whither the evidence as presented, would have passed the evidential test here. Perhaps why so many are asking salient questions.

@Curryageous I agree her friend has been hoodwinked. I am just postulating that LL did nothing in her defence other than say I didn't do it, so I am wondering if she actually wanted to be caught and stopped? This lack of defence includes not involving her friends. I am not suggesting that they would have made any difference but why did she not use them more if she was pleading not guilty? It's like she's guilty, she knows it, but won't own it so wants society to put her away rather than admit to something that's he know is horrifically wrong.

Just watching the bbc i player documentary, the hospital handled it so badly.

Having read the comments of the scientist in the below link, he appears to be confirming COPFS concerns of evidential weakness in the prosecutions case, some, of the most lucid comments I have read on this whole sorry affair. Justice for the children and the parents is above all, that justice will, however it falls, filter to Letby.
https://www.reddit.com/r/lucyletby/comments/138krxk/medicalprofessionalsswhatareeyourthoughts/jizou0w/?utmmsource=share&utmmedium=mweb3x&utmmname=mweb3xcss&utmterm=1&utmmcontent=sharebutton

@Urchina there is no way the people involved could pay the kinds of compensations we are talking about out of their pockets. We are going to be talking probably hundreds of millions of pounds for all the victims (including catastrophic injury cases) and secondary victims. Civil litigation will push costs up ever further, a redress scheme would at least keep some of the costs down while still compensating the victims.

If this is all as true as is being represented on Reddit - do you not think her legal defence team wouldn’t have ferociously attacked that by having a ton of other forensic/pathology medical examiners giving evidence?

Depends on what behind the scenes happened that the public don't know of.

@Hawkins009

Quite agree. So people posting alleged (and anonymous) ‘expert’ opinions of what is apparently medically incorrect and what wouldn’t have passed evidential thresholds in Scotland is kinda irrelevant.

You can make up your own mind as to the relevancy, your prerogative.

This is pretty worthless unless you can say why your relative says this.

No doubt Dan Brown will write a best seller about it, in time.

"Why did she do it, does anyone know?"

Think of personality traits and tendencies as numbers. She won the lottery.

That's from a psychiatrist's point of view.

@CherryMaDeara In reply to your point about LL not being intelligent because she makes some spelling mistakes:

Just a minor point, not about LL, but occasional spelling mistakes doesn’t mean you are not intelligent. I know many people who are dyslexic but extremely intelligent. I know many people without a disorder who are not great at something specific like maths or spelling, yet are brilliant and intelligent in some other way. I find lots of people are excellent spellers but really have a fairly dull mind and lack any special talents and do not shine in any skill. Just felt I needed to correct that on behalf of all the bad spellers out there!

Also, when scribbling notes in a state of mental anguish, surely you would make lots of mistakes?