Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

[twoandcooplease]

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty

Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

The sheer irony of your username.

The reason these threads get the piss ripped out of them on Reddit is a) because of the grief vulturey "shaking and crying and hugging my little angels extra tight tonight" and b) the torture-porn enthusiasts who enjoy fantasising about her being beaten or tortured in prison, or being forced to attend court chained to a board with her eyes clamped open as one poster wished on the last thread.

Not because some people have differing opinions.

i dont see signficant room for doubt,
see the timeline i linked to
she was the nurse on duty in all those deaths and near deaths

Harold shipman was viewed by many as a well.regarded dedicated gp

I followed it closely. Someone above said the spreadsheet alone is 100% enough to prove her guilty, it’s not - the staff tapped in and out of shifts for each other. There were several practices at the hospital which hindered this case including the way medical notes were written and the datix. I was on the fence for a long time.

what sealed it for me however - was her going through the bin. The bizarre way she took the stand. And the note. Not just in a confessional way but that it felt self-indulgent. Like she was enjoying the pain.

why take more shifts if under suspicion. Take fewer and prove it happens when you aren’t there. I didn’t want to think it possible but she’s guilty.

Im watching the documentary now. The whole thing is just awful. Chester is one of my local hospitals, I have friends and relatives who had babies there at that time. Thankfully none who had her as their nurse but a couple with babies in nicu at that time who the police have contacted in the past. Seeing the maternity unit on tv when I’ve been there so many times with my pregnant sister in 2015 is just mental. It’s just so close to home and scary. I can’t stop thinking about those poor parents and what they went through. Also what the hell her motive was. And what her parents must feel knowing their daughter is now Britain's most prolific child killer. How do you get your head around that?

how essential it is that senior management are clinicians not traditional managers

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Interested to know what evidence you feel leaves significant room for doubt, as I have had the opposite impression, especially given the interviews with consultants and the staffing rotas.

Plus her text messages. They are so self indulgent.

”they will look silly, not me”
how flippant a way to discuss a premature baby murder investigation

Is there a version that isn't behind a paywall?

There are still people locally who won't have a word said against him

Surely she will get a whole life sentence - based on the number of murders/attempted murders, the pre-meditation (contaminating feed bags with medicines she has withdrwn but didn't actually need etc) and the use (abuse) of her position in the murders.

One of reasons Couzens got the whole life tariff was the use of his trusted position as a policeman (and using the whole covid rules/situation) as a way to commit the terrible crime

It’s beyond me that anyone could possibly think there’s insufficient evidence. Just the testimony of the senior consultant on the unit alone is compelling.

I’m not saying there is no evidence at all.

I think it’s 75% that she did it. But I don’t think it’s reached the 95% (my personal percentage of sureity) for the threshold of beyond reasonable doubt.

l wonder what percentage of being sure we would all feel we need, in general, to find someone guilty?

Since then, Mr Chambers has held directorships at a series of other NHS Trusts – commuting home to Lancashire at the weekends.
He was appointed interim chief executive at Barking, Havering and Redbridge University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust in December 2019, on a salary of more than £210,000 a year, before moving to the same position at Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust in August 2021.
In early 2022, he became a director at Royal Liverpool and Broadgreen University Hospital Trust, in charge of opening a new hospital.
He took the helm of Queen Victoria NHS Foundation Trust in February, again as interim chief executive, and stepped down in June, when a permanent replacement was found.
Mr Chamber told The Telegraph that the “best place for such issues to be examined would be an inquiry that would have the ability to establish the truth”.
Mr Chambers said that the information given to The Telegraph in 2017 was “accurate” and “reflected where we were...with the RCPCH review and the subsequent clinical and secondary note reviews”.

i dont know how to link the timeline

But you haven't seen all the mountains of evidence and you're not judge or jury. So how would you get to 95pc?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636546

Has a petition been started about prosecuting hospital management for crimes like this? The only one I can see is about requiring offenders to be present for sentencing.

No, I haven’t. Which is why I said earlier that I hope the jury have seen things I haven’t and that it’s conclusive. I genuinely hope she is guilty because otherwise it would be one of the worst miscarriages of justice in history. I’m not saying that at all she is innocent. I’m saying on the evidence they have shown to the public, it’s not 95%.

@JanieEyre here you are

archive.ph/2023.08.18-231841/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/18/lucy-letby-hospital-boss-tony-chambers-million-pension/

I havent been able to read the whole of the other thread and tyring to find the best articles to read is a bit tricky but I have some questions that others might already know the answer to

• how was she able to take her dad into a mediation or disciplinary at work
• how did she develop PTSD from being arrested, who diagnosed this, seems a bit extreme to me
• I dont believe she is mentally unwell in the way we would describe that, she is emotionally abnormal to be sure, probably a narccistic psychopath, theres no evidence of insanity
• I dont see anything particular in her childhood which would have led to such a deviation in development, its quite an odd one
• I dont understand the references to her 'childlike' bedroom, just looks like a normal bedroom to me
• I dont buy the theory that killing the babies was caused by her wanting the clinician to come running/to discuss their deaths with him, theres tons of ways of seeking a mans attention and it seems she had his attention anyway

You were free to attend court for the several months the trial was on and hear all the evidence for yourself.

This is pointless and ridiculous. Who cares if they're there for the sentencing, if you have been in court rooms enough, both criminal and family courts you'll understand the disruption that some prisoners or parties can cause and make it all about them. Not to mention the difficulties of using prison or court staff to try to physically manage people.

you can bring a representative of your choice to a work disciplinary or hearing: most people choose their union rep, that’s pretty standard.

I know that we were discussing during the trial whether there was sufficient evidence for beyond reasonable doubt, but I think now that all reporting restrictions have ended (bar anonymity) it's fairly obvious she is guilty from what people are now allowed to say publicly outside the courtroom.