Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

[determinedtomakethiswork]

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger?

That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

All this speculation on Letby's motives is pointless. No one knows why Shipman murdered his victims either. Sometimes there is no explanation beyond them deciding to do it.

But speculation that autism has anything to do with it is just way, way, way over the line. Stop with that. There's no evidence that autistic people are more likely to be serial killers. It's a completely unjustified comparison to make.

A law change forcing defendants to be in court is a silly idea and the fact that the government are even entertaining it shows that they're more interested in the latest poll than good governance.

What do you want? Defendants in court masked and tied to boards like Hannibal Lecter?

I've read that autistic people tend to have a strong innate sense of fairness, maybe that's true I don't know, but personally I don't think you can generalise all people with autism because autism isn't someone's entire personality, they still have an individual personality separate from that.

That's true but in that case, why is it that every time someone commits heinous crimes some dickhead comes along to suggest that maybe this person has autism? It's just a neurotype.

It is the same as 'my husband is callous and cruel' 'oh, maybe he's autistic'. It's nasty, ableism.

Where did you read that she was an average student? Genuinely interested to read this account.

I saw her in cross exam, and she comes across as very intelligent but that's only because she's so articulate. The actual content of her answers was childishly stupid and I was left with the impression that she's no where near as bright as she first appears.

She's probably of average or slightly above average intelligence, if I'm being generous. I figured that she'd managed to get a degree because she was hard working. I did notice that she can't spell, so academia probably didn't come naturally to her.

I saw a lawyer talking about this and he said think about every bit of circumstantial evidence being like a fibre. If lots of fibres come together they make a strong rope. He said that’s what it’s like for this case.

Exactly, circumstantial evidence is a reasonable way to convict if the totality of the evidence supports it.

That’s the mark of someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder IMO. They act in ways nobody else would because they have a supreme level of confidence. Most people wouldn’t draw attention to themselves in those circumstances, but to someone with NPD the accusation is an outrage (even though it’s true in this case) and the injury to their image of themselves as perfect must be remedied. Preserving their self is their motivation.

I don’t think Letby is autistic. Her incomprehension of the awfulness of what she’s done can can be explained by other things. If she does have NPD, she won’t see other people as fully human persons in their own right, only as objects, as satellites to the supreme being - ie her. They’re tools to use or manipulate, not people in their own right. It’s that that people are calling ‘autistic’ and I think it’s wrong. That’s not the reason Letby exhibits no empathy IMO.

I hope this isn't threadjacking but I was reading WebSleuths, and someone mentioned that "Science on Trial" website - the person who put up the website was named (I don't know if they were doxxed or chose to reveal their real name) because apparently they got banned from Reddit for continually harassing people who thought Letby was guilty. There's a ton of information about them and their relationship to Richard Gill (and a lot of worrying info about Gill himself).

I realise most everyone here was rightfully dismissive of that site when it was being spammed in Letby threads, but reading more about who is behind the Letby Truther movement is quite jaw dropping and makes you realise why people latch onto causes like this. The whole Letby Truther thing reminds me of the Sandy Hook truther (false flag) movement with Alex Jones.

This. She thought she was far more clever than she actually was. Several times she tried to outwit the prosecuting barrister and he wiped the floor with her. You have to be supremely arrogant to think you're smarter than a KC.

Let's face it, anyone who writes everything down to the extent she did just isn't that bright.

Let's face it, anyone who writes everything down to the extent she did just isn't that bright

If we are to treat all people on equal terms on here, surely we might be open to the possibility she may have neurodiversity or some suboptimal memory functioning that meant she had a tendency to write things down.

Or another option is that she could have derived pleasure in writing things down as part of her processing of what she was doing. That's quite feasible.

But it shouldn't mean that she's necessarily "not very bright" just because she writes things down. That's a very blunt tool to assess someone's IQ.

I often write things in note form as part of my thinking and rationalising process especially with my work, which is complex and needs reflection and processing. Also journalling. I'm not a criminal I hasten to add! I reject the idea that makes me or any person "not very bright."

I've been wondering about her slightly strange family (Torquay three times a year every year) and her dad staying with her when she was originally arrested that it could be that the whole family was awful and she is the result.
Not beyond the realms of possibility that she was sexually abused by her father and her mother knew.

This is wild speculation in the face of trying to work her out.

I did notice that she can't spell, so academia probably didn't come naturally to her.

Not being able to spell doesn't necessarily mean a person isn't academic.

Some of the generalisations and assumption on here are why I can't take these discussions seriously. People making assertions as if they know the person just because they've watched some videos or listened to podcasts. It all gets massively conflated.

Torquay three times a year every year

Choosing to return to the same place for a holiday doesn’t make people ‘strange’. What a weird thing to pick up on.

I think holidaying in Torquay three times a year every year is quite strange! Have you ever been there? (I mean, it's fine, but 3 x a year?)

I agree, I thought this thread would be interesting and insightful, but it's fruit loop territory

This video is so interesting - it is a series by someone who apparently has a diagnosis of NPD and explores what goes on in the mind of a person who sees and responds to everything 'through the prism of their narcissism'.

He concludes that Lucy Letby is a narcissist with psychopathic and sadistic traits.

Highdaysandholidays1 · Today 18:05
I think holidaying in Torquay three times a year every year is quite strange! Have you ever been there? (I mean, it's fine, but 3 x a year?).

No I’ve never been there and I’m sure it’s not to everyone’s taste but to somehow link that with becoming a serial killer of babies is even more strange.

@LateSummerLobelia You say: I would be very grateful if people could move away from the concept of people who are ND are somehow all clearly mad crazed psychopaths.

Its ever so tiring for those of us with ND children and those of us with ND.

i have spent many months just waiting for the trope that LL might have autism.

It is a myth that people with autism have no empathy. Just educate yourselves.

It's damned exhausting. Every single day we have to contend with prejudice and misinformation.

However, the fact you've spent many months waiting for this to be mentioned just shows that nobody IS mentioning it! I've followed this case closely and haven't heard anyone mention autism.

However, the fact you've spent many months waiting for this to be mentioned just shows that nobody IS mentioning it! I've followed this case closely and haven't heard anyone mention autism.

I've seen a lot of people speculating that she and other serial killers had autism. The last time people were saying it, it was in relation to Jeffrey Dahmer. It's not only ableist, it's thick as mince.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/john-cleese-hints-fawlty-towers-29187858.amp

Even if Louis Letby had autism , what’s that got to do with anything? Autistic people are not automatically murderers!

Neither does accompanying your 20-odd-year-old daughter to a Police Station to support her, but let’s not let these things get in the way of the dramatic musings of some MNs 🙄

Bet you weren’t speculating whether the Manchester bomber had been sexually abused. He was just a monster with no backstory.

Why are some middle class white women so desperate to provide ‘reasons’ for this murderer?!

I remember discussing someone’s inexplicable (to us) behaviour with a friend. She said “If I could understand why I’d be really worried about myself”, that’s pretty much where I am with this. I’m really pleased I don’t understand and I don’t want to.