Page 28 | Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

determinedtomakethiswork · 2023-08-18T21:23:02+00:00

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger? That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

WoolyMammoth55 · 21/08/2023 18:16

riceuten · 21/08/2023 18:08

So, for this, they deserve death threats ? Oh, the irony....

Show quote history

1/10 for reading comprehension.

I said nothing about them deserving death threats.

I was clearly replying to someone saying "Don't blame the (the parents). They had nothing to do with it."

And pointing out that their threatening and meddling might actually have had something to do with it.

No one deserves death threats, and for the record I'm anti-death penalty so don't even think LL deserves death.

Ironic?

Blueink · 21/08/2023 18:50

SomethingSmellsOffHere · 20/08/2023 17:12

I actually feel a bit sorry for him. I usually have zero sympathy for cheaters, if he did cheat on his wife, but his life is now destroyed.

Having an affair rumbled is one thing. It’s a whole other massive shit show if you had to give evidence as it turns out she’s a child killer. He will have lost everything, which doesn’t really seem fitting to his crime.

There are so many more people affected by her actions, not just those poor babies and their parents.

He behaved in a very stupid and misguided way in whatever his relationship was with LL, but unlike the managers who failed to act, he doesn’t have any culpability for the crimes.

No-one should be receiving death threats.

Globalfrumpmaster78 · 21/08/2023 18:59

WoolyMammoth55 · 21/08/2023 17:57

I'm not sure about not blaming the parents, actually.

One of the reasons that the managers told the consultants to apologise to her was "Her father... had threatened to refer them to the General Medical Council unless they withdrew their allegations and welcomed her back."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/19/trust-me-im-a-nurse-why-wasnt-lucy-letby-stopped-as-months-of-went-by

I think her parents were/are as much in denial as she is, and that seems to me like it's been actively unhelpful - they've "protected" their own child at the cost of other people's children...

Show quote history

Hang on, how many of our parents know anything at all about our jobs or are qualified to judge our professional competence at work? Presumably her father was doing what any concerned father would do and lending his support to his daughter who he thought was being bullied or scape-goated?

Other posters have said that her parents were over-indulgent, although I don’t know where they are getting that information from, but even if they were permissive helicopter parents who allowed her to shirk responsibility for her actions, and get away with manipulative behaviour, plenty of parents do this nowadays and their offspring don’t turn in to serial killers.

StopStartStop · 21/08/2023 19:16

Myra Hindley... I was so relieved when she died in jail.
Lord Longford?
I thought it was very convenient that she 'died in jail' just as some European court was about to rule that she had to be released. I wish I could find the receipts for that... but that's what I remember.
Someone, on MN I think, had a relative who dealt with her corpse - I found that more convincing. But part of me still thinks she's living out her days in Grimsby.

Paul2023 · 21/08/2023 22:51

And to think that there were people campaigning for Myra Hindleys release! What on earth was wrong with those people?!

Paul2023 · 21/08/2023 22:54

Surely the public outcry would have been too much had Hindley been released? What judge would allow that to happen ? I can’t see any Home Secretary wanting to sign her release papers..

nettie434 · 21/08/2023 23:05

I thought it was very convenient that she 'died in jail' just as some European court was about to rule that she had to be released.

She was a chain smoker and died of pneumonia in hospital. She had lots of respiratory complications so I wouldn't say it was convenient in terms of suspicious but yes she died while she was making yet another appeal to the Law Lords (prior to the Supreme Court). Successive Home Secretaries (both Labour and Conservative) always refused her appeals for parole and they knew they had the vast majority of public opinion on their side.

Lalgarh · 21/08/2023 23:09

Letby didn't watch Hollyoaks did she?

https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11580794.hollyoaks-to-be-haunted-by-angel-of-death/

The murderer will strike first in January 2015 – killing off a main cast member with a second popular character narrowly escaping with their life, the Daily Star revealed.
The serial killer is to be known as the Angel of Death as they will attack the weak and vulnerable in hospital, with multiple victims.
The hospital will play host to a serial killer (Lime Pictures)And the identity of the murderer is being kept so top secret by writers that even the actor who plays them is yet to be told who they are.

Hollyoaks to be haunted by Angel of Death

Hollyoaks is set to be paid multiple visits by a hospital-based serial killer dubbed the Angel of Death next year.

https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11580794.hollyoaks-to-be-haunted-by-angel-of-death

Zonder · 21/08/2023 23:24

StopStartStop · 21/08/2023 19:16

Myra Hindley... I was so relieved when she died in jail.
Lord Longford?
I thought it was very convenient that she 'died in jail' just as some European court was about to rule that she had to be released. I wish I could find the receipts for that... but that's what I remember.
Someone, on MN I think, had a relative who dealt with her corpse - I found that more convincing. But part of me still thinks she's living out her days in Grimsby.

She died for sure. I remember the security at the hospital at the time and had a relative working there.

Nat6999 · 22/08/2023 00:14

Nevermay · 18/08/2023 22:55

She may end up in a hospital not a prison, I suppose, if she is mentally ill. I hope she lives in terror of the nurses.....

Show quote history

From what I have seen, she will go to Low Newton Prison, which is the only high security prison for women. It's next to Frankland men's prison & has prisoners like Rose West. Both prisons have the nickname Monster Mansion.

riceuten · 22/08/2023 10:30

Paul2023 · 21/08/2023 22:54

Surely the public outcry would have been too much had Hindley been released? What judge would allow that to happen ? I can’t see any Home Secretary wanting to sign her release papers..

I think this formed the basis of Hindley's appeal - she claimed she wasn't released for political reasons, not justice-based. I imagine if Letby is foolish enough to appeal (unless on evidence grounds, and I can't see how she could do that), it will be on this basis.

Castform · 22/08/2023 11:18

kerstina · 21/08/2023 17:45

What if she does have undiagnosed autism ? Only asking that as the judge remarked her comments had been callous but if she has autism could that explain her lack of empathy in what she said to the parents ? I guess I am still trying to get my head round it and understand it .

I know some people on MN blame any kind of dickish behaviour on autism but this is on another kevel. And autistic people do have empathy, we're not psychopaths.

54isanopendoor · 22/08/2023 11:46

kerstina · 21/08/2023 17:45

What if she does have undiagnosed autism ? Only asking that as the judge remarked her comments had been callous but if she has autism could that explain her lack of empathy in what she said to the parents ? I guess I am still trying to get my head round it and understand it .

Caveat: 'if you have met one person with autism you have met one person with autism' but I am parent to two young people with Autism (18 & 16 who is also selectively mute under stress). They are both VERY Rules compliant. They have both known murder is wrong from their earliest times. They both actually have an over developed sense of 'right & wrong' & fear of authority. They both also have a great deal of empathy, both for pets & other people (known & strangers)
One of my young people can be direct / blunt to the point of sounding rude but is never callous. That's just 'them' & there's a wide variety of people with ASD of course as there is a wide variety of people & we are all complex in many ways.
But I doubt it is 'undiagnosed ASD' that is the 'problem' with LL.

StopStartStop · 22/08/2023 12:16

Zonder · 21/08/2023 23:24

She died for sure. I remember the security at the hospital at the time and had a relative working there.

Show quote history

Thanks for the reassurance!

Jamtartforme · 22/08/2023 12:34

54isanopendoor · 22/08/2023 11:46

Caveat: 'if you have met one person with autism you have met one person with autism' but I am parent to two young people with Autism (18 & 16 who is also selectively mute under stress). They are both VERY Rules compliant. They have both known murder is wrong from their earliest times. They both actually have an over developed sense of 'right & wrong' & fear of authority. They both also have a great deal of empathy, both for pets & other people (known & strangers)
One of my young people can be direct / blunt to the point of sounding rude but is never callous. That's just 'them' & there's a wide variety of people with ASD of course as there is a wide variety of people & we are all complex in many ways.
But I doubt it is 'undiagnosed ASD' that is the 'problem' with LL.

Show quote history

This is the case of the autistic adults I know. They’re extremely rule abiding, more so than the NT people I know, they’re afraid of getting so much as a library ticket

JoyApple · 22/08/2023 12:36

54isanopendoor · 22/08/2023 11:46

Caveat: 'if you have met one person with autism you have met one person with autism' but I am parent to two young people with Autism (18 & 16 who is also selectively mute under stress). They are both VERY Rules compliant. They have both known murder is wrong from their earliest times. They both actually have an over developed sense of 'right & wrong' & fear of authority. They both also have a great deal of empathy, both for pets & other people (known & strangers)
One of my young people can be direct / blunt to the point of sounding rude but is never callous. That's just 'them' & there's a wide variety of people with ASD of course as there is a wide variety of people & we are all complex in many ways.
But I doubt it is 'undiagnosed ASD' that is the 'problem' with LL.

Show quote history

I second this based on two close family members who are autistic.

RedToothBrush · 22/08/2023 12:41

TheSkull · 21/08/2023 15:34

Does anyone else think she’ll more than likely be killed in prison by other inmates?

Na. She'll either get off on being the notorious prisoner or she will ultimately top herself.

DaphneDeloresMoreheadRidesOn · 22/08/2023 13:46

RedToothBrush · 22/08/2023 12:41

Na. She'll either get off on being the notorious prisoner or she will ultimately top herself.

Show quote history

I hope neither of these.
I hope she spends an extremely long, boring and tedious time in prison. Hopefully locked her cell from most of it with bland food and little contact with anyone that isn't paid to communicate with her. If that means she spends her whole sentence alone then fine by me. I'm sure she would hate that.

I hope she spends the next 50 years with nothing else to do but contemplating why she's there.

Alexandra2001 · 22/08/2023 14:11

nettie434 · 21/08/2023 23:05

I thought it was very convenient that she 'died in jail' just as some European court was about to rule that she had to be released.

She was a chain smoker and died of pneumonia in hospital. She had lots of respiratory complications so I wouldn't say it was convenient in terms of suspicious but yes she died while she was making yet another appeal to the Law Lords (prior to the Supreme Court). Successive Home Secretaries (both Labour and Conservative) always refused her appeals for parole and they knew they had the vast majority of public opinion on their side.

The ECHR never even looked at Hindleys case (there wasn't even a time slot for the hearing)
So, back then whole life sentences didn't exist and murderers etc were denied Parole and kept in jail by the Home Sec's ruling.
These murderers argued they had been denied a free and fair hearing in front of a judicial parole panel & used the HR act to do this.

Hindley was given a 25year sentence & served 37.

Letby can now never argue her case to be freed under the HR act as she can never be considered for Parole.

I suspect she'll spend many years in solitary.

TheSkull · 22/08/2023 14:15

Seems she likes a lot of attention from stuff I’ve been reading this morning. Mummy and daddy’s golden child. Smothered by them. They probs thought she was being given the best upbringing etc but the attention she was lavished with didn’t exist in the real world. The bit I’m struggling with utterly is her holidaying in Ibiza then straight back to work and harming more dear little babies. Now that truly is sick.

nettie434 · 22/08/2023 14:28

@Alexandra2001 The bit about the ECHR in italics was a quote from another poster, not me. I am so old that I remember Myra Hindley's death and that she kept on appealing to be released!

I am sure you are right that Lucy Letby will need to be in solitary for the rest of her life.

kerstina · 22/08/2023 15:21

Apologies for my ignorant remark about Autism and very much agree with you about following the rules.
Anyone interested in Nick Van der Leeks analysis of why she did it look up True Crime Rocket Science on you tube .Lucy Letby .Fool for Love .Let’s Elaborate on Motive. He is very good at trying to work out a persons psychology and motives.

Paul2023 · 22/08/2023 16:14

Will she be got at in prison someone asked? Well she will ultimately be protected, probably in some isolated area at first, she’ll also be deemed as a suicide risk too I’d imagine.
In terms of being attacked, yes maybe by someone making a name for themselves, but there’s also a lot of nasty women in prison anyway. Of course not on Letbys level.

Shes ruined countless lives and that included her own family. They’ve lost their only daughter, who’ll go down in history as a serial killer, along with Harold Shipman. Not exactly a legacy to be proud of, ruining her family’s good name and being who she is.

Again she gets no sympathy from me , and I hope she rots in prison.

Paul2023 · 22/08/2023 16:20

nettie434 · 22/08/2023 14:28

@Alexandra2001 The bit about the ECHR in italics was a quote from another poster, not me. I am so old that I remember Myra Hindley's death and that she kept on appealing to be released!

I am sure you are right that Lucy Letby will need to be in solitary for the rest of her life.

Hindley appealed her sentence because she served her minimum term. Until the 2000s, whole life term sentences or even 40 year sentences were not really given out.

Hindley was convicted in about 1966/67? Bearing in mind hanging was only banned a few years before that.

Of course Hindley should never have been anyway.

Id expect Letby will appeal her whole life sentence because she has nothing to lose, Wayne Cousins did too and his appeal was unsuccessful.

AnnaMagnani · 22/08/2023 17:28

What if she does have undiagnosed autism ?

Then she will fit right in in prison as there are loads and loads of neurodiverse prisoners, often only diagnosed after sentencing.

My experience of autistic prisoners is they have struggled relating to people.

Does anyone else think she’ll more than likely be killed in prison by other inmates?

No, she's already been in prison for years without this happening. The example of the v few other women with whole life sentences shows it's most likely she won't be killed in prison. Prisons actually work really hard to stop prisoners killing each other.

I thought it was very convenient that she 'died in jail' just as some European court was about to rule that she had to be released.

Prison is generally not a healthy lifestyle. Yes you can do loads of exercise and healthy eating but it is far far easier not to. And Myra Hindley was in prison when it was legal to smoke there, she likely chainsmoked her way through it. Nowadays smoking is banned so everybody vapes.