Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

[determinedtomakethiswork]

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger?

That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

I would be very grateful if people could move away from the concept of people who are ND are somehow all clearly mad crazed psychopaths.

Its ever so tiring for those of us with ND children and those of us with ND.

i have spent many months just waiting for the trope that LL might have autism.

It is a myth that people with autism have no empathy. Just educate yourselves.

It's damned exhausting. Every single day we have to contend with prejudice and misinformation.

and I quoted @Jamtartforme because her experience is also my experience. Not because I disagreed.

AnnaMagnani

Its actually struggles with communication,
something many NT people struggle with too. Doesn’t make them murders.

Those with autism not having empathy is a myth and many have double empathy.

So,pretty horrendous that posters are attempting to blame autism for this.

@Lacew1ng55 as an autistic person myself I am fully aware of that.

However it is a fact that autistic people are over-represented in prison. Generally every disadvantaged group is over-represented in prison, reflecting that they experience challenges in life that others do not.

Mumsnetters who are parents of autistic children are generally fighting for them to have the best life possible. Unfortunately not every autistic child gets this by a long way, I often think 'I wonder if you would be here if you had different parents'.

However this is largely irrelevant to the case of Lucy Letby who no-one is realistically is suggesting is autistic.

Autistic? No, she's just a sick f*ck.

I'm autistic. We don't tend to murder, we're too anxious. We'd surely get it wrong and get caught (perhaps that's why we're over-represented in prisons, if that is true). We don't want to kill people, we just want them off our case.

This reminds me of a character in a Stephen King novel, think it is 'IT'? A 10 year old boy who calmly suffocates his newborn brother because he's irritated by the crying and family meals being disrupted. There's absolutely no guilt or vindictiveness involved, he's just solving his problem, and after the murder the boy simply goes outside to play. I think King describes him as 'there was nothing inside of him, just an empty void wearing a human face'. I think this would aptly describe LL too.

I was a bit sceptical about this case until I started listening to the podcasts, of which there are 50+!

I thought, how can they convict her when it all seems so circumstantial? I’m only on podcast 5, talking about the 3rd baby, and I’m like WTAF 😱

I did this yesterday whilst I was doing some tidying! It’s actually horrific what happened. I knew it was but honestly, it flabbergasts me HOWA she got away with it for so long, and I do think and have said this previously, that there is call for the bosses and directors involved in this to be questioned and potentially prosecuted!

There was a family on GMB just now talking about their daughter in 2013! She suffered a collapsed lung and apparently LL was stood over the cot as it happened. The girl survived and was transferred to a different hospital

*HOW

Yes, this is how I felt, following the court transcripts during the case each day.

I’m guessing this evil woman will be a model prisoner and try to worm herself into favour within the jail. She has form for this. Let’s hope the staff and other inmates aren’t fooled.

It won’t make any difference, she’s still banged up until she dies. I thought about this today when I went to have my hair cut - she’ll never get another scalp massage or sit and chat to a stylist again - just one of many simple little pleasures we all take for granted that she’ll never experience again. I’d sooner be dead I think.

As someone who has worked in a prison, I can say they’re not like holiday camps like the media portrays, even the female ones. Open prisons are more cushy but that is for people near the end of their sentences.

Letby won’t ever be eligible to go to an open prison because she’s got a whole life tariff.

She will never again eat McDonald’s, go to a Chinese restaurant, go to a hair salon, go for a spa day. She’ll never go to a park, go swimming in the sea. Go to a supermarket and chose what she wants.
She will never go to a cinema, have a nice glass of wine with a nice meal.
All the stuff we take for granted , she won’t ever be able to do.
Shell never have a loving relationship as such, if anything only some sordid one with another prisoner. Although I can’t exactly see her being particularly popular.

Her life will be mundane , sometimes unpleasant. It will be under close supervision and control. It will be boring.

Yet the worst thing about all this is that it was all so pointless. There was absolutely nothing to gain from it. Nothing.

Only Letby can say why she did what she did but she lives in denial.

Absolutely Paul. Surely humans are driven by self interest. She is destined for the life you have described- what was the upside for her? Why on earth did she do it? Putting aside conscience and decency it’s a terrible outcome for her too. Not that I don’t think she deserves it she absolutely does but it’s all so senseless.

Apparently, at least one in a hundred people has ASPD / psychopathy so we’ve all met them. They aren’t particularly rare. Most of them don’t kill, luckily.

Now the thing that makes me think severe ASPD is not only Letby’s actions but also that she had no anxiety about what she was doing. A lack of fear about being caught and imprisoned which stops most cluster B people from breaking the law didn’t seem to worry her too much. People like this have this way of acting like a steamroller. Unless someone stops them, they are going to keep on doing this. They believe they are entitled to.

Add to this that she actually drew more attention to herself by bringing a case against her employers. All the while, knowing that she was murdering babies. Someone scared to be caught would not have done this.

I would be very grateful if people could move away from the concept of people who are ND are somehow all clearly mad crazed psychopaths.

Its ever so tiring for those of us with ND children and those of us with ND.

i have spent many months just waiting for the trope that LL might have autism.

It is a myth that people with autism have no empathy. Just educate yourselves

It's damned exhausting. Every single day we have to contend with prejudice and misinformation.

Thank you for saying this, 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Letby’s parents want to move 250 miles to be near her daughters prison;

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23606032/lucy-letby-parents-move-near-baby-killer-daughter/amp/

But what if they transfer Letby to another prison? Will they just move around ?

Probably @Paul2023 I guess she's their only child and they still love her. What a nightmare.

Whatever she’s done, she’s still their daughter and they want to support her. You can’t fault them for that. You can be disappointed in your child’s actions, but still love them. Maybe, like the friend on the Panorama programme, they don’t believe she’s capable of what she’s been charged with. Also, maybe they want to start a new life away from where they live now, as it can’t be easy for them.

She killed at least 7 babies I definitely believe a lot more will come out disappointed wouldn't be what I would feel, devasted, disgusted enraged that a child of mine could do something like that, if they sat in court everyday they must know that she is guilty

The most important thing to remember about autism is that autistic people are still just people: we are all unique, individual human beings with our own unique personalities, characters, morals, and likes and dislikes, and of course different upbringings and childhoods and things that influence how someone develops as an adult.

I'm autistic and I personally am really not law abiding or rule abiding particularly, and I think I'm pretty good at getting away with stuff (I definitely believe that I could successfully plan and carry out a murder, though I would only ever consider killing someone who was extremely evil and I believed posed a grave danger to society) but I have a strong moral core and set of ethical values and generally a strong sense of fairness, which personally mean more to me than laws. I have deep empathy and I could never hurt anyone unless in self-defence or if they were hurting others, but stuff like, for example I gave my mum a pot brownie when she very seriously ill and in great pain. That's illegal but I don't believe it's unethical or that most people would consider it unethical.

I've read that autistic people tend to have a strong innate sense of fairness, maybe that's true I don't know, but personally I don't think you can generalise all people with autism because autism isn't someone's entire personality, they still have an individual personality separate from that.

Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, I just think it's an important thing to say, because there's so many myths about autism.

Good pointv@AcesBaseballbat@AguaConGas

Not sure how I managed to tag an extra person there but the edit button won't let me delete it.