Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

[determinedtomakethiswork]

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger?

That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

He is working in another part of the country now.

Our society rewards men for being brave and women for being caring, so I'd say that the male parallel are the firefighters who start wildfires in order to be the hero who saves everyone - they're almost always men, often volunteers also.

In some ways equally about control, as well as about adrenaline and positive attention.

I can completely understand how someone might not be able to accept that of their child, but her mum and dad have been in court every day and the evidence has been pretty damning. I was quite surprised at her mother's response.

So no I don't think it's as clear cut as they must've known.

Of course it isn't, but some people like to try & rationalise things & it brings comfort to think there were signs. That way it can't happen to them.

I need to think more about it, but it really jumped out to me that she seemed to be looking for sympathy/praise for what a great nurse she was. And an element of escalating if she was annoyed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66120198.amp

Seems in line with the grandiosity/entitlement of psychopaths. But expressed in a different way to male serial killers.

It is not really a blame game, I just dont understand how it happened, that is all. I think a parent could prevent someone becoming a nurse if they spoke to their trainers/employers

It is being reported by at least one source that she had an infactuation with one married senior doctor and on four of the occasions she murdered, she did it when he would be the one to come on call and deal with the situation. The implication being she did it to get attention from him. Whether thats true is open to debate but there doesn't seem to be other explanations

Neither letby or her parents came to court today well she refused to come out of her cell, in my eyes she should have been dragged up there to face them poor poor family's, I personally don't know how I'd react if it was my son so we probably shouldn't judge but it was indeed a strange reaction

I haven't seen the documentary, so apologies if this was answered already - were the staff who raised concerns about her with the hospital not allowed or able to go to the police themselves? I just can't understand why, if they really thought she might be harming children deliberately, they wouldn't take their concerns elsewhere if senior management seemed to be hushing things up.

When I heard on the podcast that they suspected she was killing children in order to attract her wannabe boyfriend into the room, it made me think how childish that was. Obviously it was a terrible thing to do, but it's the sort of thing a very young teenager might do. When you put that together with all those soft toys and the childish diary and that sort of thing it's as though she never matured.

Panorama. It’ll be on BBC iplayer.

@witheringrowan the consultant on the program, said a few times that he was warned of dire consequences if he continued with his complaint. All of the consultants had approached senior management together. They were told en masse that they had to write to Lucy to apologise.

This is the problem with whistleblowing isn't it?

They don't believe she did it well her mum doesn't she sobbed in court and said this can't be happening

Of course they can't believe it because what does that say about their child, parenting, etc. It's far easier to convince yourself it's a terrible miscarriage of justice. Same for the friends, if the person you liked & believed in did something like this it would shake you to the core in terms of your own judgement.

I think a parent could prevent someone becoming a nurse if they spoke to their trainers/employers

What would they say, my dd used to have tantrums so I think she might harm patients?

Her mum's probably in denial.

I know I would be if I found out my child was a murderer and about to be sent to prison. I'm sure there are family issues too, otherwise someone would have noticed.

I also wouldn't underestimate how manipulative a child can be. In my career, I've seen it a couple of times, in children as young as 4. They hide their true selves when they need to. Some seem sweet and innocent until I notice a pattern, like in Letby, where stuff always happens when they're around.

To be honest the friend absolutely baffled me, I've known people who have done some bad things and I've completely cut them off even friends from childhood there is no smoke without fire and I couldn't believe they hadn't done until proven other wise

It is being reported by at least one source that she had an infactuation with one married senior doctor and on four of the occasions she murdered, she did it when he would be the one to come on call and deal with the situation. The implication being she did it to get attention from him. Whether thats true is open to debate but there doesn't seem to be other explanations

That's a motive in a twisted sense of course.

@Laurapb88 you know people who have done something as shocking as this?

I completely agree with this. Consultants raised their concerns and they were ignored. How many babies died as a result of this? 😡😢

I just can't understand why, if they really thought she might be harming children deliberately, they wouldn't take their concerns elsewhere if senior management seemed to be hushing things up.

Where would you go? This is the problem with whistleblowing, people fear for their jobs, livelihoods & often are frozen out.

@Laurapb88 her friend made me think of those women who want to marry men who are in prison for murder and rape. Apparently the Yorkshire Ripper has had tons of marriage proposals.

It's one thing having your memory of your friend, but surely to God you'd do your research on what your friend is accused of.

No this is truly awful, I have known someone who has repeatedly accessed child abuse images and even re offended when he got out of.prison I also had a teacher at school who I ended up working with who groomed 100s of children on line and raped 3 of them who again went on to re offend and is back in prison so no not as horrific as this but still completely diabolical and disgusting

Most psychopaths don't become killers, let alone serial killers. Likewise not all serial killers are psychopaths.

I wonder how those managers who overruled the surgeons are feeling tonight. I wonder how they can contemplate living with this on their conscience