Page 6 | Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

determinedtomakethiswork · 2023-08-18T21:23:02+00:00

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger? That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

Nevermay · 19/08/2023 00:21

They are like storms. Totally unconcerned with what gets in their way

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 00:22

Surely her management who ultimately disregarded the concerns about Letby will face possible criminal charges?

Negligence ? I’m sorry but heads need to roll
hear. Those who protect led her need to be imprisoned too.

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 00:24

Anyone tell me why did it take so long to get to trial?
Also Letby was arrested five years ago.. she hasn’t been on remand since then surely? Was she free but on police bail ?

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 00:26

Nevermay · 18/08/2023 22:36

what I don't understand is how her parents could have brought her up to the age of 18 without realising that there was something seriously wrong, and that she needed to be prevented from becoming a nurse.

How can she have hidden what she was capable of, from being a tiny child upwards?

You could say the same about Wayne Cousins? What makes a policeman suddenly decide to abduct and kill a woman?

I think some people have that kind of evilness in them. They just cover it up well.

Lalgarh · 19/08/2023 00:28

Hohohogreenjennie · 19/08/2023 00:21

Obviously we will never know her true motives. But the prosecution hinted that she liked the drama and sympathy, and she felt disrespected when less experienced nurses got placed in nursery 1 instead of her.

Perhaps one day, a baby in her charge died purely by chance and she liked the sympathy she received. She wanted to be with the sick babies where she had more of a chance to receive that attention and sympathy or act the hero. But nothing happened. So she decided to make it happen herself.

Maybe she didn’t intend to kill or cause long term harm at first. She perhaps made a baby desat and intended to revive them but it all went wrong. And then she realises that she doesn’t actually feel fear or guilt about it. Or the attention & sympathy she receives outweighs the guilt she might feel. Or she gets a buzz from it that becomes addictive.

And then she starts to get the huff because less senior nurses get her prized room 1 shift. So when they go out on their break she sabotages their charges. The designated nurse comes back to find their baby ill and desaturating, and they panic. But low and behold, cool and collected Nurse Letby comes in from no where to save the day and shows everyone how it’s done. Sometimes she ‘saves’ the baby and is a hero, sometimes her efforts are in vain and her colleagues console her saying she’s an amazing, dedicated nurse who tried her best. All eyes are on her.

Then she has her doctor love on the side. She hasn’t seen him for week due to being on holiday. She asks if he’s on the unit on her return but he isn’t, he’s on clinic. But he’s the ‘on call’ doctor. She knows if she makes a baby desat he will come running to the unit to assist and they will save the baby together or else they will comfort each other if they are unsuccessful. Regardless, she still gets to see him and get his attention and sympathy.

During one attempt it was noted that she received a needle stick injury and had to go to A&E. She proper milked it when she messaged her doctor love and made a big deal about fainting and being overly feminine/damsel in distress.

This ⬆

PurpleWisteria1 · 19/08/2023 00:33

SleepingStandingUp · 18/08/2023 22:44

I don't think many people would see virtually any behaviour in their child as indicative that their child will grow up to be a murderer. And there's nothing to say she was like this from a tiny child. No one is born evil.

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You are wrong there. In some children I’m afraid it’s patently obvious that there is a personality disorder from early on. I know of one child who has always been different in terms of empathy and anger- right from early childhood. The child is early secondary now and has moved on to hurting small animals. Sadly nothing I can do personally as not a member of my family. But it’s extremely obvious this child is different from all the others I’ve known in that way.

hellesbells · 19/08/2023 00:37

peelyjuice · 18/08/2023 22:43

In light of the verdict, will there be a serious case review/action taken against the higher ups that refused to listen to concerns,made consultants apologise and tried to cover it all up?

unlikely

The Government have already said the will be an independent review into the case and the hospital

1dayatatime · 19/08/2023 00:39

@Hohohogreenjennie

What really worries me now is that everything you wrote seems feasible.

People join a medical career to save people and who better to save than newly born innocent babies.

If Letby deliberately harmed them and then saved them then she is a hero. But if she deliberately harmed them and then they died she gets both immense praise for trying and sympathy for the trauma. And so on.

I can see how this could easily be happening with other nurses or doctors especially in an NHS culture of no blame and cover up.

We can't bring back those poor little babies but we should be doing everything we can to prevent it happening again.

Lwrenagain · 19/08/2023 00:39

Contaminating the bags of fluids with insulin, for a colleague to unknowingly feed a baby through the IV is one of the most reprehensible things I've ever heard of. I've given medications to literally 1000s of people, (not a nurse but care worker) to imagine someone replacing a tablet with poison or something and it being me who gave it makes me feel physically sick, to imagine a precious tiny, wanted, loved, ivf baby? Don't know personally if I'd ever live with it, no matter how innocent I was. I just think it would destroy my brain.

Blueink · 19/08/2023 00:58

1dayatatime · 19/08/2023 00:39

@Hohohogreenjennie

What really worries me now is that everything you wrote seems feasible.

People join a medical career to save people and who better to save than newly born innocent babies.

If Letby deliberately harmed them and then saved them then she is a hero. But if she deliberately harmed them and then they died she gets both immense praise for trying and sympathy for the trauma. And so on.

I can see how this could easily be happening with other nurses or doctors especially in an NHS culture of no blame and cover up.

We can't bring back those poor little babies but we should be doing everything we can to prevent it happening again.

An ordinary nurse or dr isn’t going to poison and murder just because they got sympathy, there has to be something deeply wrong and fortunately it’s extremely rare.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 19/08/2023 01:00

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 00:26

You could say the same about Wayne Cousins? What makes a policeman suddenly decide to abduct and kill a woman?

I think some people have that kind of evilness in them. They just cover it up well.

Show quote history

He didn't just decide to rape and murder out of nowhere though. He started with flashing and escalated. His police colleagues called him "the rapist" in Whatsapp, they knew what he was like.

peppermintcrisp · 19/08/2023 01:01

When I heard on the podcast that they suspected she was killing children in order to attract her wannabe boyfriend into the room, it made me think how childish that was. Obviously it was a terrible thing to do, but

I once heard about a case, where a woman, thought her firefighter boyfriend, was having affair. She set her place of work on fire to see if he was lying about going to work. He wasn't he attended the fire! She was charged with arson and attempted manslaughter.

Wintersgirl · 19/08/2023 01:03

Often surgeons & CEOs have psychopathic traits.
I've read that about surgeons too, their ability to calmly cut open the human body without a second thought, I know they've had training but you have to be a special kind of person for it not to bother you...

AuroraCake · 19/08/2023 01:05

Wintersgirl · 19/08/2023 01:03

Often surgeons & CEOs have psychopathic traits.
I've read that about surgeons too, their ability to calmly cut open the human body without a second thought, I know they've had training but you have to be a special kind of person for it not to bother you...

or it’s your everyday life and you understand that I is to make people better?

to say it doesn’t bother them is presumption. To say that in order to be professional they need to compartmentalise is strangely NT behaviour. Healthy even.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/08/2023 01:09

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 19/08/2023 01:00

He didn't just decide to rape and murder out of nowhere though. He started with flashing and escalated. His police colleagues called him "the rapist" in Whatsapp, they knew what he was like.

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I think there is bound to be more to come with Letby.

People don’t just start murdering babies several years into their career. Either something happened or the first case of harm/attempted harm hasn’t been found yet.

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 01:14

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 19/08/2023 01:00

He didn't just decide to rape and murder out of nowhere though. He started with flashing and escalated. His police colleagues called him "the rapist" in Whatsapp, they knew what he was like.

Show quote history

But my point is, just because people do respectable jobs, be in a position of trust, it doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of committing evil acts..

ColinRobinsonsFart · 19/08/2023 01:31

I come from Chester, my parents still live there and are good friends with retired senior staff. They are shell shocked by it all. My first baby was born at the countess nearly 40 yrs ago. So the hospital has a special place in my heart.

I did my nurse training ( RGN) at another hospital in the 1980s and was working on paediatrics as a staff nurse when Beverly Allitt was prosecuted.

We were shocked and dismayed that 'one of us' could do such a terrible thing. I cannot describe how I feel about Letby. There are no words.

All I can think about are those little babies and their poor mummies and daddies and families.

Lake12 · 19/08/2023 01:36

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 00:24

Anyone tell me why did it take so long to get to trial?
Also Letby was arrested five years ago.. she hasn’t been on remand since then surely? Was she free but on police bail ?

I suspect, the sheer volume of evidence that both the prosecution and defence had to work through.

SockQueen · 19/08/2023 01:37

Hohohogreenjennie · 19/08/2023 00:21

Obviously we will never know her true motives. But the prosecution hinted that she liked the drama and sympathy, and she felt disrespected when less experienced nurses got placed in nursery 1 instead of her.

Perhaps one day, a baby in her charge died purely by chance and she liked the sympathy she received. She wanted to be with the sick babies where she had more of a chance to receive that attention and sympathy or act the hero. But nothing happened. So she decided to make it happen herself.

Maybe she didn’t intend to kill or cause long term harm at first. She perhaps made a baby desat and intended to revive them but it all went wrong. And then she realises that she doesn’t actually feel fear or guilt about it. Or the attention & sympathy she receives outweighs the guilt she might feel. Or she gets a buzz from it that becomes addictive.

And then she starts to get the huff because less senior nurses get her prized room 1 shift. So when they go out on their break she sabotages their charges. The designated nurse comes back to find their baby ill and desaturating, and they panic. But low and behold, cool and collected Nurse Letby comes in from no where to save the day and shows everyone how it’s done. Sometimes she ‘saves’ the baby and is a hero, sometimes her efforts are in vain and her colleagues console her saying she’s an amazing, dedicated nurse who tried her best. All eyes are on her.

Then she has her doctor love on the side. She hasn’t seen him for week due to being on holiday. She asks if he’s on the unit on her return but he isn’t, he’s on clinic. But he’s the ‘on call’ doctor. She knows if she makes a baby desat he will come running to the unit to assist and they will save the baby together or else they will comfort each other if they are unsuccessful. Regardless, she still gets to see him and get his attention and sympathy.

During one attempt it was noted that she received a needle stick injury and had to go to A&E. She proper milked it when she messaged her doctor love and made a big deal about fainting and being overly feminine/damsel in distress.

This is pretty much what I feel went on.

On the podcast they said that she had been on a secondment/placement at Liverpool Women's hospital to get additional training in ICU level care, (the NICU there is bigger and cares for more complex babies than CoC) and not long returned to Chester when all the deaths started. I wonder if something happened on that placement that triggered her subsequent actions?

I'm not sure if Dr A and she really were having an affair, but she was certainly infatuated.

Fredflinstoneswife · 19/08/2023 01:41

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Lake12 · 19/08/2023 01:42

Lake12 · 19/08/2023 01:36

I suspect, the sheer volume of evidence that both the prosecution and defence had to work through.

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@Paul2023 - also covid and lockdowns wouldn't have helped.

echt · 19/08/2023 01:51

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Goady and entirely missing the point.

Unless you are a certain kind of anti-abortionist.

FFS.

Globalfrumpmaster78 · 19/08/2023 01:58

Cantthinkofausername2023 · 18/08/2023 23:29

I think very rarely you get someone who wants to be a hero so takes a profession that will make them look good. It seems like she was a very lost person with significant social difficulties. Her bedroom was childlike. She'd never had a proper romantic relationship from what I've heard. She craving attention and control and sunk to the most evil depths to get it.

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And yet that Scottish professor and expert on serial killers said on the news or on the Panorama programme, I forget which, that she was a person with good friends and strong social networks? And that there were absolutely no red flags that pointed to her being a killer.

I must admit, I watched the Panorama programme and was none the wiser about her personality or motivations. I’m
not doubting the jury’s verdict as they go on the evidence they are presented with, but all the evidence was circumstantial wasn’t it? And it appeared that there were serious malfunctions relating to the governance of the unit and hospital trust as a whole.

If seven consultants thought her behaviour was suspicious then that certainly is significant and I am not saying the verdict was wrong, just that as an objective viewer who knows nothing about the case, the Panorama programme made very little sense to me. I’ll obviously have to listen to the podcast… .

RadishesForYou · 19/08/2023 02:07

drpet49 · 18/08/2023 23:00

I think the parents knew what she was capable of.

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OMG @drpet49 what a stupid comment.

saffronsoup · 19/08/2023 02:07

It was reported that the only time in the trial when she was emotional and cried was she the doctor with him she was infatuated entered the witness booth to give his testimony. She may have created an entire fantasy world in her head with this doctor. I am not sure if anything ever even happened between them or she was just infatuated with him.