Worried about my mother's neighbour and her obsession.

[missmartha]

My mother died recently , but 20 yers prior to this she met a younger woman from the town she lived in at her art class and despite a 20 year age gap they hit it off.

This woman was so friendly she had a key to my mother's house and to be honest, was a help in my mother's final days but obsessively so.

Mother was 98 when she was admitted to hospital and the friend was with her, she visited twice daily and when she wasn't visiting she spent all day at my mother's house.
I do not live locally so could not visit daily but mother had other friends and neighbours but this one did not stop to the extent that she put people off visiting and the hospital staff thought she was my mother's daughter. She was there constantly, even attending ward meetings about my mother's future.

I am unclear what she did at my mother's house. I did ask and was told that she did the washing, took in the mail and 'aired' the house.
I'm pretty sure she moved in if I'm honest.
She lost weight , she wouldn't' eat. She refused days out with friends , gave up her hobbies and delayed her holiday.
When my mother returned home she slept in the house. Mother's other friends were afraid to visit.

My mother died recently and although I have visited, I have rarely seen the friend as she keeps out of my way. I have no idea why, we have a telephone relationship, but a good one I think.
Anyway on seeing the friend I was frankly shocked. She had obviously lost several stones in weight , looked much older and was restless, pacing and shaky.
I believe her to still be living at my mother's house though she can't do that much longer and has a very nice house of her own anyway.

All this has worried me and I am concerned about this woman. What , if anything can I do to help her, I fear she may be ill.

Honestly. I would get a couple if guys to physically lift her carry her into a car and then change the locks. I would also then once the locks were changed drop her off to her own house.

By law, the death has to be registered within 5 days (at least in England or Wales), and in my experience they start nagging you to register asap. It's actually a criminal offensive not to register the death, and the authorities take it pretty seriously. When my parents died I registered the death three days later, and they made clear they were unhappy and seemed kind of shocked that it took that long, even though it was well within the legal time limit.

One of my parents died recently and it took us nearly 2 weeks to register the death - the paperwork took longer than 5 days to even get to the registrar, and then they couldn’t offer us an appointment for nearly a week. So I’m not surprised OP hasn’t been able to do that yet.

OP, I think you’re right to be on the phone to the solicitor. The executor really needs to make sure he takes charge of this asap. She has a home of her own - she needs to go there!

She is a thief !!

Who is the executor and what is their opinion?

This is probably the first the OP has heard about the death needing to be registered within 5 days. People aren't born with this knowledge. If it's not something the solicitor does, why would they mention it?

No but any solicitor who handles wills or anything to do with death would definitely know that, and it's absolutely something you are informed about when someone dies. In fact over-informed; when someone dies, you're overwhelmed with info and the number one thing you're told over and over again is that the death must be registered within 5 days.

I didn't know about the 5 day rule either, but within hours of my parents dying I had the hospital and then the registry office on the phone making a big deal about the urgency to register asap.

Without meaning to be indelicate, there's also the issue of the body and the practicalities of that. The body can't be moved from the hospital to the funeral director without a death certificate, and hospitals will contact you to ask what's happening with the body.

You don't need paperwork to register a death. Every government or council website or anything you google about it says "don't delay registering the death just because you don't have the paperwork."

My concern is that the neighbour has already registered the death, and that's the reason the OP hasn't been contacted or nagged to do so. This also very nearly happened to me with the person trying to essentially steal my mother's house (who wound up squatting there for months and had to be evicted) and it turned into a huge headache.

You don't need paperwork to register a death. Every government or council website or anything you google about it says "don't delay registering the death just because you don't have the paperwork."

You do, however, need a code before you can book an appointment with the registrar…

I’m only posting this here because although the legal requirement is 5 days, there are occasions where it’s simply not possible. It worried us that we couldn’t register my parent’s death within that timescale. The registrar was fine with it as the delay wasn’t caused by us.

It is not something I knew I have to say. I have never had to deal with a death prior to this one and even the solicitor/executor simply told me to get the death registered but nothing more .
It was at this point that the neighbour, who is or was organising the funeral offered to register it.
NowI find I have to ring the registry office as the neighbour has all the documents relating to my mother and is not taking my calls.

This pickle is not something I am proud of but I am doing my best to sort it.

If you're not the executer, let him deal with this.

Where was this? I've had to register four separate deaths of immediate family members over the past few years and this is the first I've heard of any "code." Do you mean the medical certificate of cause of death? It depends on circumstances but often the hospital sends that direct to the registrar.

Obviously if there are extenuating circumstances (or the registrar themselves are fully booked) and you are in contact with them to explain, then of course that's fine and you won't get into trouble.

But being in contact with them and being granted permission for an extension to the deadline is very different from just not doing anything.

It sounds like OP hasn't been in contact with the registrar at all, which is why it's so strange that there's been no contact, and why I'm worried the neighbour may have already secretly registered the death.

Reading. There was a 6 digit code that the medical examiner gave us that we had to give to the registrar - the rest of the paperwork was sent electronically.

It was at this point that the neighbour, who is or was organising the funeral offered to register it.

Please, please prioritise getting the death registered yourself.

When you register a death the registrar gives you a piece of paper which you have to give to the funeral director. This paper is what gives legal permission for a funeral to go ahead. You cannot have a funeral without it.

I don't want to threadjack but this very nearly happened to me, and if I'd not been able to beat this person to the registry office (which quite literally did wind up in a race and having to beg the registry office to stay late for me) the person involved would have been able to basically steal my mother's body and have her cremated without any funeral and without any of her family being able to attend, and we wouldn't have even known about it until afterwards.

It was a very tight thing to be able to stop this person from registering the death and was nearly disastrous.

Surely the executor has legal responsibility for the estate at this point and as such should be in charge of changing the locks and arranging for the property to be secured? Should anything happen to the house isn't the solicitor liable? I'd ring him and light a fire under his arse to get something arranged asap.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-66220156.amp

@missmartha
I think it is telling that as soon as you challenged the "Friend" about her entitlement to be in the house, by asking for her door key, her immediate reaction was to up her game, by bringing in a supporter, and as she admitted, start delving into your Mother's finances.
She sounds like someone with her eye on the main chance, determined to get what she wants, and to keep you isolated from taking any effective action against her.

Your phone should be red hot tomorrow morning! Take notes, and ask the executor to write to you confirming what you have agreed, and what action they are going to take. This is to protect you, should the various charities ever query events.

As for the funeral, the minister will guide you through everything, that's their job. Though your Mother was very religious, and you don't want to go against her wishes, remember that funerals are to comfort those left behind, and if anyone deserves some comfort just now it is you.

Shut this down?!
This woman is grieving the loss of her friend or possible partner of 20 years. She's behaving oddly, I grant you, but she's grieving!
Not everyone has nefarious intentions. Have some heart.
OP I would contact Social Services/ the LADO at your Local Authority/ Age Concern for some advice and to get some help for your Mother's dear friend/ partner.

@sadaboutmycat this woman was not the OPs DMs partner of 20 years. She did have partner who died in 2019. She had known this woman a while but she was not a long term partner.

@sadaboutmycat yes shut down her illegally living in the OP's Mother's house. As to nefarious intentions she alienated all the other friends wishing to visit, attended meetings at the hospital as the hospital staff believed her to be the daughter. I would call that controlling and potentially misrepresenting yourself.

The OP use the word obsessed. It doesn't appear to have been a healthy relationship. She has a house of her own she isn't homeless. I would be changing the locks.

She's behaving oddly, I grant you, but she's grieving!

You don't get to live in someone else's house because you are grieving. And go through their finances.

Oh goodness. This has escalated. Making what is already a difficult time more difficult.

Other than the woman do you know anyone else with keys who you could use to change the locks with the permission of the executor/trustees? Do you have someone who could support you and go with you to do this?

Hmm. So has everyone been contacting the thief thinking she's the DD and that's why OP doesn't seem to know about it? 🤔 She's dodgy AF

OP I'd be informing the police she may have taken out loans, direct debits or obtained credit in your DM name. She's had access to all the paperwork she'd need to "prove" identity.

Thats terrible. Why did the person who wanted the body want to do things that way if the family were willing to organise a funeral? Was it because they didn't want the funeral costs coming out of the deceased person's estate, so they'd inherit more? I'm so sorry you went through this 💐

I did inform the police. I rang them and explained the situation and at the end of it all they told me that they couldn't do anything as the neighbour had keys for the house and it was therefore a civil matter.

It is totally unacceptable of course but at that point there was nothing I could do about it.

This morning I'll ring the solicitor/executor and see if he cares.

Though all this I am trying to remember that this is about my mother. Her amazing life and how much I miss her.

OP I'm sorry for the loss of your mum and this dreadful nightmare you've been drawn into. Can you emphasise to the executor that the estate is being tampered with and how much its upsetting you? It really is for the executor to take responsibility and stop the "friend" in her tracks. I hope you get some support today.

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this at a time when you should just be able to concentrate on your Mum. It's hard enough when you lose a parent without this situation to deal with as well.

Surely you can register the death yourself? Why does she need to be accompany you? I realise you're grieving but you seem very passive in all this. Change the locks and speak to the solicitor today.