Worried about my mother's neighbour and her obsession.

[missmartha]

My mother died recently , but 20 yers prior to this she met a younger woman from the town she lived in at her art class and despite a 20 year age gap they hit it off.

This woman was so friendly she had a key to my mother's house and to be honest, was a help in my mother's final days but obsessively so.

Mother was 98 when she was admitted to hospital and the friend was with her, she visited twice daily and when she wasn't visiting she spent all day at my mother's house.
I do not live locally so could not visit daily but mother had other friends and neighbours but this one did not stop to the extent that she put people off visiting and the hospital staff thought she was my mother's daughter. She was there constantly, even attending ward meetings about my mother's future.

I am unclear what she did at my mother's house. I did ask and was told that she did the washing, took in the mail and 'aired' the house.
I'm pretty sure she moved in if I'm honest.
She lost weight , she wouldn't' eat. She refused days out with friends , gave up her hobbies and delayed her holiday.
When my mother returned home she slept in the house. Mother's other friends were afraid to visit.

My mother died recently and although I have visited, I have rarely seen the friend as she keeps out of my way. I have no idea why, we have a telephone relationship, but a good one I think.
Anyway on seeing the friend I was frankly shocked. She had obviously lost several stones in weight , looked much older and was restless, pacing and shaky.
I believe her to still be living at my mother's house though she can't do that much longer and has a very nice house of her own anyway.

All this has worried me and I am concerned about this woman. What , if anything can I do to help her, I fear she may be ill.

I now think that she has been through my mother's house, through papers and documents , jewellery, and other bits and pierces.
Honestly, I started off thinking it was obsession , but over the last couple of days I am coming around to the belief that she is hard as nails and on the make.
It has made me wonder why I didn't see it sooner.

As soon as the executor's office is open tomorrow I'll be on the phone to him and express my worries.

Absolutely do not involve her in registering your mothers death. Why would you? She isn't family and should not be involved in these matters.

I would also avoid involving her in planning the funeral.

This must be so stressful for you.

I agree she's on the make. Unfortunately I've seen this a lot with my grandparents. People like this play the long game by befriending an elderly person, making themselves invaluable to them. Usually they hope to be left something in a will. It sounds like she's gone one step further and judging by her reaction to the legal threats, I'd guess this isn't her first rodeo.

I agree to turning up to the house, refusing to leave until she does and calling the police again if she refuses. I would also get the locks changed and not worry too much about the legality of this. She isn't worried about legalities! I don't think the charities will care you changed the locks if there was a security threat.

@missmartha
There is so much about this that is really wrong and worrying!
Are you depending on her to get entry to the house as you do not have your own key?

Why is she going with you to register the death? You would be better doing this on your own, or with someone you know for support.

To me, it looks as though she might be attempting to steal your identity, passing herself off as your Mother's Daughter. Do you have any friend or family who could go to the house with you to tell her to leave?

I'd be wary of telling her what your legal plans are, play your cards close to your chest. Do not allow her any further involvement in your Mother's affairs at any level.

Why do you need her to register the death with you? Is she holding some essential paperwork and won't give it back?

My friend cared for her elderly father who had dementia and found herself under investigation by social services for potential financial abuse because she used to use his card to pay when they went to cafes for tea and cake. It all blew over as they couldn't find anything wrong but I wonder if this lady could be had for financial abuse of an elderly person. The executor may be the person to ask about this as presumably they will have access to bank records?

I think getting the locks changed ASAP is crucial. She could change the locks if she has a key (I wouldn't put it past her as she's already demonstrated that she doesn't care about legalities). Could you take someone with you next time you go, as some posters have suggested?

Just reading the bit about going together to register the death. If your mum died in England or Wales then you don't need to be in possession of any particular paperwork at all (apart from what will have been sent to the registrar by the dr or coroner), so please don't believe the woman if she says she must come because she has your mum's paperwork/birth certificate etc. It is vey usual for one relative to go to the register office on their own, and would be much more unusual for you to ask this woman to accompany you.

it seems so strange that she has a key to the house, and you don't ?
how did this situation arise ?
anyway, i agree, it is looking more dubious to say the least.
but in a way that makes it simpler; you don't have to hang back, being careful of her feelings, worrying about her mental health etc.
also ring the priest and tell him you are arranging funeral.
all ministers are well used to relatives who have no church background, they will guide you.
was this woman present at the time of death, is she the informant, so needs to register it.
the executor should deal with securing the house and excluding her from it.
do you have a strong supportive person to go with you next time, or even one of the neighbours there, to back you up.
all the best.

Even if a non relative is present when someone dies, the registrars, and law, in England and Wales prefer a relative to be the informant to register a death.

what about your mother's bank accounts.
where are her cards.
why the delay in registering the death.
usually one makes an appt to do so the same or next day.
has an appt been made.
if in a city, may have to wait.
have you contacted banks etc to inform of the death.
i know they want to see death cert, but given the delay and strange circs, maybe you could ring them in the interim.

are you the only child ?
any other close relatives ?

Thanks all so much.

Yes, she was there at the time of death, My mother dies at home and she was present, she was not alone with my mother but she was there.

She suggested collecting the death certificate and also that the two of us could go together but that was last week and things have changed.

I see the details are online and easy to follow.

I am uneasy about the funeral. My mother was very , very religious as is this woman and she has always been extremely eager that the neighbour organise it. However, it is true that she has shown no concern for us , the family , has actually acted badly towards me and really,I have no idea why I would want her near my family come to think of it.

As for the key, I never needed one as mother left the door on a latch for every one. I guess the neighbour had one when mother was in hospital.

Do you know where this woman keeps the key? Just take it into your possession and refuse to give it back.

Ask the solicitor if you can just change the locks. He’s hardly going to argue. She has no right to go through your mum’s stuff. God knows what she’s taken. Can you go up with your Dh/large friend and get out an emergency locksmith?

This is awful, OP. No wonder you’re upset. You shouldn’t have to deal with this all when you’ve lost your mother. This woman is no friend to you - and I wonder if she was really a friend to your mother. She might have been to start with, but this all sounds extremely concerning.

I know you’ve explained the house is now in trust or whatever you said, but if you can id get the locks changed PDQ. You can ask for X amount of keys, sign for them, notify the solicitor, and it will be clear you’re acting in the best interests of your mother’s estate.

I’d also cut this woman right out. You don’t need her to do the death certificate and you don’t need her involved in the funeral. I’d try to lull her into a false sense of security - maybe even ‘apologise’ about asking for the key back. Let her think she’s in charge and has plenty of time to do whatever conniving things she’s doing - and then get the locks changed and everything arranged before she realises. She has no right to be in your mother’s house interfering with her things. Who knows what her motives are, but she’s behaving horribly towards you, and potentially ripping off your mum’s estate.

I wouldn’t worry about her health yet. Get control back and then notify her church of your concerns. I feel angry on your behalf.

Sorry for the loss of your mum 💐

It's all taking a bit of a sinister turn. I hope you can get her away from the house and get her key back very soon.

I was worried she'd step up her actions if you told her to leave. That's why I said go there with a locksmith and no advance warning.

OP. Go there now. Take time off work if you have to. Call the police and a locksmith when there. It's not a civil case, the police are fobbing you off. Tell them it's your DM home and this woman is in it refusing to leave, ask them to come and remove her. Don't mention stuff about trusts and executors etc it muddies the waters. Change the locks. If necessary tell police she's stolen the key. Do you have any evidence whatsoever your DM gave her the key? You do have a letter from DM saying she wants you to go through the house contents. You can tell them she is definitely dead and if this woman had an agreement to water plants etc she has no need to be there any longer. You need to be there to essentially ask police to remove her from "your house".

She doesn't need a removal van, she most likely has your DM bank cards etc. She'll be going through paperwork disposing of evidence that accounts she's stolen from ever existed.

There's no need to involve her in registering the death. Take charge of that yourself or if you're too stressed ask a friend to do it for you. It has nothing to do with this woman. You don't want or need to see her, it's bad for your mental health. She doesn't want the death registered because it will make it even clearer if she's stealing from the accounts. Much easier to use a card that's not registered to a dead person with a bank who's been informed of the death.

How can OP change the locks when this woman has the key and OP does not?
Sorry you're having to deal with this vile person on top of your grief OP.
She can do one regarding registering the death and organising the funeral. How dare she 😡

The op changes the locks by calling a locksmith, showing documents that prove its her mother's house, and having a new lock fitted. That's what people do when they don't have a key (lost, stolen)

Christ, I take back my original opinion. What a nightmare. I am so sorry for the stress. Surely a solicitor would know the correct way to get her out?

Having a key doesn't prove possession. They woman could have (and probably did) steal the key from OP's DM. Who was in hospital and wouldn't have known who was in the house, because this woman kept visitors away, so there was nobody to tell DM this woman was living there.

Don't wait until tomorrow OP she could have stolen so much by then. Go there now and also tell the police you believe she's stolen jewellery and money from your DM before/after death, after they've removed her. Unless you don't care because it's not yours or your relatives loss, only a charity? I understand if that's the case and you just want to grieve. I wouldn't have this woman involved in the funeral though, unless you can't prevent it because it's part of the will, but maybe her being under investigation for crimes would change that and mean you could organise the funeral.

Don't beat yourself up for not seeing it before. You're grieving, so vulnerable, and she's a confidence trickster, so practiced at deceit.

By law, the death has to be registered within 5 days (at least in England or Wales), and in my experience they start nagging you to register asap. It's actually a criminal offensive not to register the death, and the authorities take it pretty seriously. When my parents died I registered the death three days later, and they made clear they were unhappy and seemed kind of shocked that it took that long, even though it was well within the legal time limit.

It's surprising that all of this (clearing the house, making arrangements for the house and possessions, conversations with executors) is all happening without the death being registered, as normally that's the very first thing that has to happen. You certainly can't start making plans for a funeral until you've registered the death, as no funeral home would permit that until they have the death certificate.

OP, why has the death not been registered, if your mum has been dead for a week? And where is the body now? It's extremely unusual to wait this long and I'm surprised the solicitor is not emphasising the urgency. You don't have to have any documents to register the death (it's useful but not essential), if that is a concern, the only essential thing is that it has to be done within the time limit.

What country are you in? If you're not in the UK, a lot of advice given here may not be relevant (but of course it's good that you have a solicitor advising you). I believe the process is slightly different in Scotland than in England/Wales and the time limit to register is longer.

Do you have the medical certificate of death to take with you?

Yes, this.

I've actually had to do this twice. The first time was because I was just an idiot and forget the keys, then when the locksmith opened the door I realised the house had been burgled so had to quickly go "oh before you leave..."

The second time was in a very similar situation to this one, and I had to call a locksmith to open the door then put a new lock on. Neither time did the locksmith ask me for any proof of identity or residence - perhaps I just looked trustworthy!

The OP is grieving, she sounds as though she's on her own with all this and she's had this nasty piece of work pulling the wool over her eyes, taking over, taking up her headspace and generally derailing her. People don't know what they don't know. This is probably the first the OP has heard about the death needing to be registered within 5 days. People aren't born with this knowledge. If it's not something the solicitor does, why would they mention it? If it's so frigging urgent and necessary within a short time frame, perhaps the government should ensure relatives are notified of this necessity. It's a bit much to just expect people to know.

I hope you don't get in trouble for it OP.