How do British Parents feel about...

[TooBigForMyBoots]

...the Brexit vote, given how it has disadvantaged those children without dual nationality?

I'm from NI, so very fortunate that mine still have FOM. I'd be raging if anyone took that away from them.

Totally gutted and I felt and still feel like my and my DCs opportunities have been ripped away by morons and con artists. I will never be ok with it.

Only really affects the middle classes. Not something I'm bothered about. The same people moaning about this will also moan about climate change.

No it doesn't. It affects the Working Class more because the Middle classes can afford or know how to get past the removal of FoM.

Sorry OP but you speak like a true privileged middle class person. No WC kid is effected by FOM all that's effects them is their ability to get access to affordable housing , healthcare and jobs. Wry rarely Will a WC kid go and work in the eu let alone study and the last time I checked they can still holiday in Spain and go to Oktoberfest like they've always done.

I speak like a true privileged middle class person? I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted by that.

Working class people aren't thick. We don't lack aspiration, intelligence or a sense of adventure. The removal of FoM only effects those on lower incomes. MC and UC kids are fine. They can afford to jump through hoops.

My kids are lucky enough to have an advantage over other WC British kids because they are from NI.

I am a WC single parent living in an inner city council house, with a low salary and more kids than bedrooms. My folks are WC. My grandparents were mostly WC with a bit of underclass thrown in. My great grand-parents were a prostitute, a circus worker and various, rabble rousing riff raff.😆

You need to re-examine your own prejudice and ignorance wrt class @fullbloom87 .

I don't live in the UK and I think that it has become an angrier nation every time I go home. It was like Brexit happened and then Covid and all Hell broke loose. But if you're just in the trenches of real life, there is every chance you don't notice.

I never felt anywhere near privileged until Brexit.

I think it will " work itself out in the wash" , but no I am not delighted. I think it's a shame the option isn't so free to our kids but if you really want to work in Europe they can. Just takes more planning .
When we had freedom of movement, yes I spent my 20'a and 30's working in Europe but alongside many us/ South African/ Australian people- they had extra admin , but did it. Even the Russians and Ukrainians I worked with made it happen- and those are not easy passports to travel on- even then.
Also- I live in an EU country and I can see that they are really struggling with seasonal workers ( think uk bar staff/ waitresses coming over for summers etc) by increments they are making it easier for uk citizens to get visas. Europe is full of third country workers.
I worked in Switzerland as well- that just took paperwork and many trips to some townhall from memory.
Once this shit show are kicked out, there will be another shit show and then I hope in 8-10 yrs someone in charge will see sense and renegotiate freedom of movement again.
Really- if you want your kids to work abroad help them find their way. It's possible. Most of my work has been outside of the EU anyway- never been an issue if you are focussed .

Fully agree. Furious. For good reason , and I don't think it's Brexit tbh ( literally just flown out of there- my taxi ride to Gatwick was 1hr of him ranting. Everyone has full rage)

My daughter spent 3 months picking lettuces in the UK, working for one on the big agro firms. She lived at home but worked alongside British and predominantly Romanian workers who mostly lived in on-site accommodation.

She would frequently not find out until 9pm the location of the field she had to be at for a 4am start. These locations could be anywhere within a 50 -60 mile radius with no travel allowance. The clothing provided gave no protection whatsoever from the sun, rain etc. She worked 6 days a week for the minimum wage. It was back breaking work.

Those in hostels were 6 to a room, miles from the nearest town with only an expensive on site shop and very basic cooking facilities. My daughter and others stayed behind to drive them in to town so they could buy reasonably priced healthy food. She has said the accommodation on the barge in Dorset looks considerably better.

Under FOM this sort of employment model operated all over the UK across construction, factories, car washes etc. HGV drivers from Eastern Europe lived in their vehicles for months at a time, existing in a tiny space with no bathroom and cooking facilities.

I’m sure it will take many years for the economy to adjust to the new reality but I’m hopeful that this sort of exploitation and poor working conditions will come to an end.

I also agree that Britain has become a lot angrier but so has the Australia, the USA, Canada and a number of European countries. IMO covid is the bigger driver of this.

Not everyone is going to have career which will take them to bloody Luxembourg

This. Of the friends, family and hundreds of people I've worked with, I can think of two who have ever worked in Europe (both in Switzerland). And I worked in accountancy and investment banking which has a lot of internationally mobile people. I met plenty who worked in the US and HK/Singapore though.

As a nation, I wouldn't say languages were necessarily our forte (yes, I know some Brits are fluent in European languages but they're not the majority). As a result, people tend to gravitate towards English-speaking countries.

As for Uni students, there's an enormous choice of countries to choose from if you want to do a year abroad. (And it must still be possible to study in the EU as my son's friend is about to start his degree in Italy).

Really pissed off. I hate Brexit and the ripples the referendum has caused. I work in the NHS. So many European nurses left post referendum due to the uncertainty. Hate everything about it and what it says about our country.

Well it’s fantastic that you now feel privileged for the first time 😂 Another silver lining I suppose 😄😄

But your kids can afford to travel on a tour of Europe? They can afford to live in eye watering expensive cities such as Paris, Berlin, Geneva and Milan?
Your working class children are not going to Magaluf for a week post A levels and then on to college? University or jobs? Your working class children have the luxury to coast around Europe for a year or two apparently with the funds to pick up the odd job as they go, with no care for the future. Sure.

Why are there more EU immigrants in UK percentage wise rather than vice versa?

Couple of reasons. They mostly have a second language and it tends to be English - same with African and Asian people. Whereas UK people rarely have a second or third language.

Also there is the lax employment regulations in Britain and Ireland. Employers can find lots of ways to pay below the minimum rate. It was noticeable after EU expansion when east Europeans came to UK and Ireland and not Sweden - where of course Employers would have to pay them properly.

But this will change over time, well maybe not in the UK....

Yes the waiting times for appointments have really improved since Brexit haven't they? In particular its got better after losing thousands of NHS staff who returned to home countries elsewhere in the EU.

Big victory there.

MC kids and professionals will continue to go to travel, study and work in the EU - they will have access to the systems, resources and costs. Its WC kids who will miss those opportunities. This notion that WC kids never go abroad to work, especially in sectors such as construction, engineering and hospitality, is rubbish.

Yeah, that's the problem though. You can't just move, and getting a visa isn't as easy as you seem to believe it is.

No, they were going to work in travel and tourism, the beauty industry, construction and engineering.

Engineering firms who used to routinely offer their apprentices a year working in the factories in Germany or Italy as part of their development. Travel and tourism firms offering rotations across countries in the EU to improve their promotion opportunities. Construction firms likewise. Those schemes in particular gave WC kids a change to move up the ladder - the costs involved mean more of those opportunities now stay within the rest of the EU. Others went as self employed skilled trades and built their own experience.

Its always happened - WC people have always been more likely to migrate for work, for better opportunities. The MC lacked the need and will still have the resources to pay visa costs and fees to study and work abroad.

@fullbloom87 Survey after survey shows the UK as being economically disadvantaged by Brexit.
I recently went to Italy on holiday and the difference in the standard of cleanliness, and full shelves in the supermarkets were amazing.

two opposing answers.

i live in France, my younger son was born here, we’ve been here for 15 years. My children haven’t lived anywhere else. Brexit has caused a mountain of shit for us - having to get work permits, getting our passports checked and stamped, having to change our bank / investment accounts, not being able to go to UK unis as local / home students - just a total pita all round. We have applied for French nationality but fuck knows when that will happen. And for British friends who are married to France men - they can’t even move home to the UK with their families!

at the same time, growing up in working class / rural Scotland, I didn’t know a single other person who aspired to living or working in Europe because they didn’t speak the language and they didn’t get the attraction. I’d include myself in that, it just never occurred to me as something that ‘normalI’ people did: DH is the one who is a fluent French speaker and wanted to live there. None of my family speak a European language. I’ve got plenty of family and friends who have moved to Australia, NZ, South Africa etc but none who have moved to France, Germany, Italy. 🤷‍♀️

To actually answer the post…

Totally fucked off that Brexit and loss of FOM will have a big practical and financial impact on my own British-living-in-the-EU children.

but not surprised that a lot of British parents don’t care as the idea of living / working / studying in the EU has always been a pretty niche interest in the UK.

I respect democratic votes. However, of all aspects of Brexit, this was the wrong hill for our government to die on. Freedom of movement for work and study (not benefits) could have been part of our Brexit negotiations. I believe it would have resulted in better outcomes overall and less bitterness.

@Louloulouenna that is unnecessarily inhuman. When I was a child (1980s/90s) my parents always gave lifts to Eastern European seasonal agricultural workers. They would hitchhike into town and back to save their pennies. Nowadays I reckon people would worry about safety.

I recommend watching Auf Wiedersehen, Pet.