I’m going to have to pull DD from holiday club due to her not stopping talking aren’t I?

[SheNeverStopsTalking]

DD is 9.

In Holiday Club 2 days a week, 1 of those days I’m working the other day is purely to give me some headspace.

She talks from the moment she opens her eyes, until the moment she closes them but also talks in her sleep. She will wake me up at night if she can’t get back to sleep to have a chat. She will talk to me while we watch TV, describing whats happening on screen while I’m there, I can’t take her to the cinema as she talks all the way through the film!

It’s just me and her at home, so it can be extremely intense during holidays hence the 1 day a week break as otherwise I find myself needing a break. At least she’s out the house 5 days a week during Term Time – I work freelance so usually do 2-3 days work a week and give myself 2 or 3 days off, cut down to 1-2 days a week in holidays.

But DD is spending all her time talking to the adult leaders not taking part. If a familiar face turns up she might play with them/talk to them for 30 minutes or so but otherwise it’s just the leaders. I can see they’re finding it as tiring as I am. They tell me they swap leaders every hour or so, but there's 4 leaders to 60 kids so each leader is getting at least 2 hours a day of DD talking. She engages in conversations. She just talks a lot.

She’s not behaving badly, so they can’t technically ask I don’t bring her as the contract states – “A child will only be asked to leave holiday club if their behaviour is seen to be violent and/or dangerous to either one or all of 1) other children, 2) themselves or 3) staff”.

She chose where to go and what days to do it.

I did wonder if she felt overwhelmed by it as she has SN (dyslexia, dyspraxia/DCD, and general processing difficulties – main areas of this are audio and thinking speed - I also suspect ASD or ADHD but no-one else sees it) so thought it might be too busy/too much to process but she says she loves going, really enjoys it and everyones really nice and we're not getting any post holiday club meltdowns unlike after school where we have one nearly everyday so I now feel stuck.

I’m going to have to pull her out aren’t I just to save the leaders sanity?

Giving her jobs is a really good idea and something school do with my DS to keep him active.

She's enjoying it and it's a learning experience and she isn't hurting anyone there is no way I'd stop her going

PhantomUnicorn I think you put that so respectfully and eloquent and it's great advice

I work with children with SN.

I've worked with children since I was 17 in various settings including holiday clubs.

I can assure you the leaders will understand exactly why you put your DD in club and will be empathising they only have it 2 days a week for a few hours.

Don't pull her. She's happy and enjoying it. That's all that matters.

This. I don't enjoy driving potential friends away with my talkativeness. I can't help it. I'm in my 40s so is not going to improve now. I do the best I can. Some people aren't capable of learning these social skills. It's called a disability for a reason @Myknewname

course it doesn't, i never said it did.

I can't wish away my disability or my sons, but i can find ways to make it easier for us socially/emotionally, and mitigate the effects of them on ourselves and the people sharing space with us.

Not everyone is going to share my opinion, but as i said, i have autism/adhd, as does my son, i know how much I struggled growing up, and still do with my particular sensory needs in social environments. my friends are 100% supportive of my needs and help out immensely and are unbothered by them.

People who aren't my friends, are less so, and while i wish everyone was more understanding/tolerant, they aren't, so i've had to learn ways to mask, and cope with the burnout/emotional disregulation that occurs when i HAVE to mask in environments when its not appropriate for me to be 'myself'.

All i'm saying, is when there is space/ability to do that around behaviours where they CAN be mitigated through teaching certain skills, as parents, we should be doing it.

I think Lulu, as adults especially we have more freedom of association than kids in a class or club. And we by trial and error find the people who can either love our company inspire of our quirks or actively enjoy them. Perhaps because they have the opposite quirk - hating being put on the spot to speak by questions and like spending time with someone who holds most of the conversation and just chime in when they have something to add.

Just because some people find us "too much" isn't a universal judgement that all people will. I think we can be sensitive to criticism especially of our kids but just because people have opinions doesn't mean they are right.

With DS when he was younger and very loud I often empathised with Brian Blessed's mum 😂 But I remind myself that actually the skill of being able to talk at length is a skill cultivated in sports commentators, radio personalities, youtubers etc. Obviously it is a skill that needs refining to be engaging rather than dull, and to be able to have two way conversations too, but it isn't wrong for my son to be loud and talkative just because it would be convenient for me if he were quiet. And indeed when he went through a short period of mutism I really missed his chatter because I imagined he was grumpier with us all than he really was.

I had a boy in my class last year that sounds so like your daughter.
His mum was always so apologetic but honestly I loved chatting with him, he was so interesting and full of amazing random facts. Yes, at times I had to say keep that thought and we will chat more at playtime/lunch etc.
I will really miss him next year when he moves up.
Please keep her in the club and anyone who chooses to work in childcare will (should) totally understand and embrace her personality and deal with it the best way.

Has DD seen a SALT recently? The Q&As you list all seem very factual and closed, kind of limited as conversations. Is it all facts and observation or does she talk about feelings, about what she likes or doesn't like, or ask about what you like or don't like? Girls especially talk about feelings more as they get a bit older.

And does the conversation flow or does she say what she wants to say about a topic and then carry straight on talking with a different topic? Does she continue the topic you started by asking you a question or giving you space to talk more about the topic?

I'm poor at the responsive question-asking thing myself. When DS was being assessed for ASC I had several "Uh-oh that's me" moments. So I checked in with DH and it turns out he can do conversations properly. Lucky him. I am rubbish at follow-up questions even though I do want to know the answers.

You can probably teach DD to shut up at intervals and yes that's a useful skill but still only a sticking plaster if she really can't do third-turn or fourth-turn dialogue or whatever the experts call it.

This. I don't enjoy driving potential friends away with my talkativeness. I can't help it. I'm in my 40s so is not going to improve now.

@LuluTaylor I improved some in my 30s so it definitely can be done. I still try and work at it each day.

I do the best I can.

That's all any of us can do.

Some people aren't capable of learning these social skills.

They can to some extent and I'm sure you have, if you're aware it's a problem.

It's called a disability for a reason

Yes it's a disability but that doesn't mean we can't try and work on it and at being the best version of ourselves we can be (as I'm sure you do) while at the same time accepting that we have a disability so it's harder for us than other people and we mightn't always succeed.

I know someone who has a diagnosis of ASD now and she uses it as justification to act as awful as she wants. Not good. Outright assaulting NHS staff and stuff and then using the label to get away with it. I don't think most of us are like that but there's definitely a push towards being able to act however you want if you have neurodiversity/MH problems (I have a severe MH disability myself and that's just what I'm observing in culture and I don't think it's right.)

We mightn't always succeed but we can do better than not trying at all.

At 9, someone will still learn stuff for many years to come- they're still capable of improving these things to some extent over the years.

If we couldn't improve then the NHS wouldn't recommend books/resources to help us improve once we get an ADHD diagnosis (they do.)

Also for those saying she can't help it or that she shouldn't be expected to mask that part of herself or that social skills can't be learned - she might equally be one of the people who could learn them fine but needs specific explicit instruction in them. Several people have mentioned how helpful they'd have found it if they'd been told some of the expectations and skills that other people picked up automatically.
If you don't try to teach them, then you'll never know.

Sorry haven't RTFT but what we sometimes do for children with ADHD at that age is give them credits for talking/asking questions.

Eg 5 raffle tickets. So they can come and talk to a member of staff but only in exchange for a ticket. And once they're gone...

It works quire well and helps them to learn and focus their minds on whether this is something they really want to waste a ticket on or not.

I say this as someone with ASC (and suspected ADHD) and it would have helped me as a child to have had something similar. I just had no idea I was irritating instead.

Is she talking to the adults because it's hard for her to engage with the other children?

I think the leaders should be doing more to help facilitate engagement with her peers, this is especially important for asd children. Things like ice breaker activities or small group activities with some children she might be compatible with.

She won't be the most difficult child there. She's not violent, bullying, disobedient, not listening or engaging in dangerous behaviour. At worst, she'll be a bit wearisome for them.

It’s interesting you suspect ASD as she sounds just like my autistic daughter. She’s mainstream and no learning disability but always seeks the adults out to chat to. Paying her into the trampoline park became a waste of money as she would spend the hour chatting to staff. Same with soft play when you get. At the park she would go and talk to the adults and ask them about their kids!! She also talks through tv. Strangely not at the cinema though.

Sounds like she needs to take up drama or singing as an activity where she’s kept busy with her voice throughout! My DD attends a summer drama school for a week sometimes and loves it.

Maybe have a word with the staff at the holiday club about redirecting her to activities with other children.

i wouldn’t pull her out. My son has autism and is the same as your child with talking. Its exhausting and drains me. There are parts of the day where i have to say to him right lets just not talk for 5 minutes now or lets just have five minutes peace because its absolutely draining.

Can you buy her a dog to talk to/with?
I'd say ADHD! Double time!

It’s a really common trait in autistic girls to prefer the company of adults (and sometimes younger children) over their peers. Mainly because they find it hard to relate to them.

my mum could have wrote this and I have adhd, I wouldn’t pull her out just try to discuss with her about boundaries and trying not to talk so much to leaders as they don’t have the time to listen to one person all day, as much as it could be adhd she should be taught to have a bit of insight into her actions as hard as it would be for her to stop it, she obviously can cut it down in school

My daughter was exactly like this! It was exhausting! She is now 28 and has just in the last six months been diagnosed with ASD and ADHD. It may be worth getting your daughter checked out. I feel for you as I was a single parent to my daughter and I didn’t know which way to turn.

Nope. Let her get on with it. Gently suggest she partake in some things and ask th leaders to do the same

I wouldn’t pull her out. As tiring as kids can be when they constantly chatter I don’t mind it and I have a front facing job. If I am quiet then I just let them rattle on. Maybe it would be good to speak to your DD of taking social. Like paying attention to another person not responding much as a cue to take her leave. She is little though and to be honest sounds switched on and lovely. I feel if you pulled her out it would feel like a punishment when she can’t understand what she has done wrong. Work on teaching her quiet time such as drawing or crafting. Maybe you’ve just stopped setting boundaries because you feel overwhelmed but it’s not wrong to tell a child to sit quietly and read, write, draw. Please keep her in the summer club.

So mean.

OP she sounds absolutely lovely. There are some horrible curmudgeons here.

She sounds really sweet 😊