I’m going to have to pull DD from holiday club due to her not stopping talking aren’t I?

[SheNeverStopsTalking]

DD is 9.

In Holiday Club 2 days a week, 1 of those days I’m working the other day is purely to give me some headspace.

She talks from the moment she opens her eyes, until the moment she closes them but also talks in her sleep. She will wake me up at night if she can’t get back to sleep to have a chat. She will talk to me while we watch TV, describing whats happening on screen while I’m there, I can’t take her to the cinema as she talks all the way through the film!

It’s just me and her at home, so it can be extremely intense during holidays hence the 1 day a week break as otherwise I find myself needing a break. At least she’s out the house 5 days a week during Term Time – I work freelance so usually do 2-3 days work a week and give myself 2 or 3 days off, cut down to 1-2 days a week in holidays.

But DD is spending all her time talking to the adult leaders not taking part. If a familiar face turns up she might play with them/talk to them for 30 minutes or so but otherwise it’s just the leaders. I can see they’re finding it as tiring as I am. They tell me they swap leaders every hour or so, but there's 4 leaders to 60 kids so each leader is getting at least 2 hours a day of DD talking. She engages in conversations. She just talks a lot.

She’s not behaving badly, so they can’t technically ask I don’t bring her as the contract states – “A child will only be asked to leave holiday club if their behaviour is seen to be violent and/or dangerous to either one or all of 1) other children, 2) themselves or 3) staff”.

She chose where to go and what days to do it.

I did wonder if she felt overwhelmed by it as she has SN (dyslexia, dyspraxia/DCD, and general processing difficulties – main areas of this are audio and thinking speed - I also suspect ASD or ADHD but no-one else sees it) so thought it might be too busy/too much to process but she says she loves going, really enjoys it and everyones really nice and we're not getting any post holiday club meltdowns unlike after school where we have one nearly everyday so I now feel stuck.

I’m going to have to pull her out aren’t I just to save the leaders sanity?

My youngest is like this he’s older than your DD but now I’m quite honest and just say ‘I’m feeling a bit irritable and need some quiet time’.
The HC people just have to put up with it. I’m sure they could brush her off if it was a massive issue. Maybe by pick up time they are a little tired but I bet out of the rude, entitled, violent etc kids they get your daughters chattiness isn’t too bad.

I've got one with selective mutism. Shall we swap for a week? 😂

For all those saying the leaders can cope, they are mainly teens, how much experience do you think they have with children with SN?

If I was a leader I would be expecting the parent to tell me what works/doesn’t work if my child had SN.

If they are leading activities they need to be able to tell the other children what to do without a child talking to them all the time. Doesn’t sound as if there are enough leaders for one to be able to spend their time listening to OP’s DD.

It really infuriated me when a teacher comes along with a comment like this.

It is not a social skill they need to learn, the constant chatting with adhd and ASD kids is a lot of things, but it’s not that. For those kids what strategies do you put in place beyond “learn not to do this” out of interest? Are you aware why they do this?

It is a social skill she needs to learn, neurodivergent or not.

Wow, you really have no clue, do you? My God this is upsetting to read.

Don’t pull her out! It’s not like holiday club is forever - she goes home at the end of the day.
Two of my daughters are like this. One is eight (we joke that like if a shark stops swimming it will die, she will die if she stops making noise - it’s relentless). More difficult to deal with is the teen. She will follow me from room to room keeping up a constant monologue. If I tell her I need to stop listening for a bit she says it’s fine, she doesn’t mind if I listen or not. It’s all stuff I have no interest in too (TikTok trends, various things she’s found on Reddit to be outraged about). It’s exhausting. Don’t feel bad about needing a break especially if it’s just the two of you usually. At least mine have each other to talk to (at)!

I don't think you should pull her out at all, but I do think she needs to learn some strategies to manage her continual talking, for her own sake.

I knew my comment would upset ppl and that was not my aim, but as a teacher who had 8 children in the class with varying degrees of send, this one particular child would, if allowed, take all of the lesson up. The table they were on dipped due to the constant chatter and so on.

I had many experienced Sen teachers give advice and what we did was the best outcome for this particular child and their peers.

As well as being a teacher I am also a mum to a child with asd/adhd and epilepsy. I have had to teach my child life skills and social skills as some behaviours are still not widely accepted within society, whether you like it or not. I want my child to understand how they could come across to others and what others mean. So I have taught my own child when it is and is not appropriate to chat and so on.

Oh my word. Are you really a teacher? Honestly? That’s so sad and so worrying that this attitude and sheer ignorance still prevails . Or maybe it is lax training

Poor little girl! Leave her! They only have to listen to her for two days a week, plus they are getting paid.

Well of course because all children with autism and adhd are exactly the same. It’s literally as simple as telling them of course.

Just so you know, your child will still suffer periodic breakdowns and burnouts throughout their life from trying to do something their brain can't handle. Especially if a girl. It's not about manners or knowing how to behave. It's fucking brain chemistry. Speechless.

My son is like this, and my own primary school reports often noted my tendancy to be a chatter box too. 😳

I think as parents we can feel a lot of pressure (internal mostly) to make sure our children are Goldilocks kids - not too loud, not too quiet, not too inactive not too bouncy, not too misanthropic not too social. Just right.

And I'm sure there is some general wisdom in there about moderation in all things. But the impression we are given that this stuff is ours to control and shame our kids for when they push on the edges of the bell curve is mistaken I think.

Kids are different, they have different strengths and challenges. They are different depending upon their mood and circumstances.

When I saw other adults actually listening to my son or redirecting him kindly, I realised that actually it wasn't as much of a bother to people who were only spending a small time with him as it was for me who was with him loads (As I need the quiet to process if I get overwhelmed) and it also wasn't something I had control over by coaching him prior, he had to practice those skills with other people.

So no, I think her interacting with others is how she'll learn the balance, some people will let her speak at length, some won't. Being able to speak with people is a huge life skill and she's not any worse off because she does it a little "too much" than a shyer kid who speaks a little "too little". She'll figure it out.

With you at home, I think as others have said you need to work on meeting your needs as well as hers. With my tech loving son who can talk to me at length about maths, computing, gaming and science, an analogy he understands is "my RAM has filled up" (the computer's short term working memory) and he understands I need some quiet time to process.

And we both take it less personally than just telling him I've had enough - it's not a personal slight, I just need to use my brain for my own thoughts.

Have you thought about enrolling her in a drama class? My son enjoyed that for a while. His good reading and speaking skills earned him narrator parts and he learned to give other kids time to speak because of the script and practice role playing etc. Turn based games, or things like I spy with my little eye which have a formula also help practice the skills. Listening to stories or reading aloud too.

These things can help her build skills in this area to get more out of her conversations y listening to the other person but it's also okay that she's a bit chatty and sociable. Not every quirk has to be corrected.

@SheNeverStopsTalking it does sound time to find some techniques to help her learn to exercise some self control.

if you had an opposite child that never talked you’d be finding ways to empower them to, wouldn’t you?

whether NT or ND all kids need to learn to manage their impulses. Some do it through standard socialisation, others need a clearer framework to build the skills.

the talk tokens and then write it down sound a good idea.

could you implement that at home, starting with a certain part of the day for a short period of time ans building up?

For all those saying the leaders can cope, they are mainly teens, how much experience do you think they have with children with SN?

I think younger people are often more accepting about these things. They've often known people with that diagnosis etc and had a lot of exposure to inclusive ideas about it.

If I was a leader I would be expecting the parent to tell me what works/doesn’t work if my child had SN.

OP is still learning as her DD doesn't have a full diagnosis and no treatment for ADHD etc as yet.

It is not a social skill they need to learn

It definitely is a social skill people need to have. They might not be able to be the best socially but they/we can learn somewhat- that's why there's such a thing as social skills training for those with ASD and maybe also those with ADHD (which would've been awesome for me.) If it were impossible for them to learn anything socially then places wouldn't offer it.

If you think the leaders might struggle, give them 'permission' to tell her she needs to find a friend to talk to or whatever. Don't pull her out.

I wouldn't take out of the club. You need a break.

From what you've said, I'll be amazed if she does not have ADHD.

I wouldn’t take her out. We have a DD who is very similar and she’s going through the process of ADHD diagnosis. She talks constantly and is quite sensitive emotionally which cause meltdowns but she’s amazing in lots of other ways, as I’m sure your DD is.

attitudes like yours are why kids with ND struggle.

we do absolutely need to learn to handle our ND habits, including incessant, inappropriate chatter/noise. Yes, there is a very valid reason WHY we do it, but it doesn't mean its ok to do it ALL the time, to the detriment of everyone else around us, we are not more important than everyone else in the environment.

It is absolutely appropriate to teach us when it isnt ok, and how to cope/regulate ourselves during those times. Self-regulation is an essential skill, and by just going 'oh you're disabled, do what you like' does more damage than you think.

There are times when its ok to unmask, and expect people to take us as we are, noises, ticks, chatter, fidgeting, meltdowns and all, and times when we need to learn its not appropriate.

Talking at people incessantly wether they are interested or not was one of my DS adhd traits. He sounds very similar.

I wouldn't pull her out. Speak to her about it and keep at it.

God, don't take her out! More days if anything.

Every class/club/camp has a kid like this. The one in my son's holiday club sits at the reception desk at sign in, watches the gate from the window at collection time to tell the staff whose parent is coming, and probably is "assisting" them all day in between. If it wasn't him it would be someone else. The staff are well used to it.

The whole point is these behaviours are often not controllable, they are a unconscious reaction to environmental stimuli. Expecting a child to be self aware enough to see they are experiencing anxiety in an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people and know how to regulate those feelings in a socially acceptable way is completely unrealistic. In the OP situation it sounds like the child needs 1:1 support to help them emotionally regulate, in the same way someone paralysed from the waist down needs a wheelchair. Wishing away someone’s disability because it’s embarrassing for you doesn’t make it better.

@TheYearOfSmallThings I like this idea, DD would feel grown up "helping", I might steal that thank you!

You made all that up, I never suggested any of it.

And quit the 'we'. I'm not on your team.