Kevin Spacey

[Gotmygladragson]

Just saw the not guilty verdict. I haven’t been following it closely but from the bits I have seen, I’m surprised. Was this what was expected?

Not necessarily Spacey but this seems to the standard defense whenever a rich, famous person is accused of anything. It seems to me it's become a bit of a 'get out of Jail free' card.
It was said about Jimmy Savile's accusers until there were too many of them to ignore. Women are all gold-digging liars apparently.

He's "innocent" the same way the Ulster Rugby Rape men were "innocent" ie, guilty as hell.

I am astounded at the naivety of some of the posters here wrt our legal system.

But it couldn’t have happened in the way alleged - that is enough to raise a doubt in a jury. KS was being tried for specific actions rather than just being a sex pest /bit dodgy etc.
It’s always going to be difficult to prove a specific event happened without any corroborating evidence. If some of the factual matrix is misremembered then the jury will question everything.
People are human and fallible, they make mistakes so I am not questioning the sincerity of the witnesses or their perceptions of what happened to them, but those mistakes create doubt and that is all that is needed.

It seems on further reading that they were warned by the Judge about it.

Three and a half weeks ago, at the opening of Kevin Spacey’s trial, jurors were warned not to become starstruck by the glittering celebrity world they were about to enter....

It's worth dropping this Telegraph article into an archive website reader.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/26/kevin-spacey-cleared-elton-john-david-furnish-testimony/

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude I get that people mistemember things, but it seems to be pushing the boundaries of credibility that someone could forget flying in a private jet to Elton John's house.

It wasn't just Spacey though.

The witness list included Sir Elton John. The alibis included Dame Judi Dench. It was a very 'A List' experience for 12 jurors to the extent that the Judge spoke them about it at the start of the trial.

@AutumnCrow it seems though (from what someone up thread said) it wasn’t members of the Jury Mr Spacey was seen hugging after the trial.
That wouldn’t have been allowed.

The Guardian reports it was interactions of some sort with both.

Spacey also thanked Evan Lowenstein, his business partner and manager, and Lowenstein’s British wife, Lucy, who attended the trial each day.

Before Spacey’s tearful speech, jurors had waited outside the courthouse for him to emerge. Lowenstein, a 49-year-old former pop star, shook hands with two of the jurors and one could be heard telling him: “Well done.”

Lowenstein and five jurors then went back inside the court’s foyer, where they were joined by Spacey. The actor was seen crossing his hands on his chest, bowing, and weeping as if to thank the jurors. Spacey hugged and kissed two security guards on the cheek before leaving the court. Fans gathered outside the court and shouted “we love you, Kevin” as he got into a taxi to leave.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/jul/26/kevin-spacey-cleared-of-sexually-assaulting-four-men

"Feeling" you are a victim doesn't make you a victim.

You asked, 'who gives a shit?'

Who on earth "forgets" the experience of going to a mega party in a private jet? For that to be credible, you would have to show that the accuser knew KS in 2001, had been invited to the party, wasn't someone else at the relevant time. I suspect that he did not say it happened in 2001 because there were very good reasons why that story would have fallen apart immediately.

Lawyers and legally trained people can and do serve on juries.

@AutumnCrow ok from seeing that Guardian post it seems it did talk/hug with some of the Jury.
Doesn’t mean they were starstruck or groupies or anything.

Yes, that was my point - that it’s unlikely the accuser would forget that experience. I was responding to someone else who intimated that Elton John was mistaken.

So can people as thick as mince. Do you understand how jurors are selected? They don’t just pick the clever people.

I think people genuinely think jurors can’t be your every day idiots. ‘Jurors aren’t stupid’ is my favourite comment of the thread. Why wouldn’t they be stupid?

I’m dubious about it because so many came forward with complaints. If it were one person then maybe but four different people saying similar things just seems difficult not to believe somehow?

Anyway, I always thought he came across like a nice guy and he’s a fantastic actor so I hope he is innocent and can go on with his life.

Having worked at the Old Vic, I would hedge my bets that this won’t be the last of KS in the docks…

I've not read the whole thread. I have a visceral reaction to Kevin Bacon. Why? Because he is such a good actor. His characters in Sleepers and The Woodsman are so bloody good that I believed him. I am not a queasy kind of person, I meet the ilk of those he portrayed on a daily basis. But I literally cannot watch the abuse scenes in Sleepers.

Spacey became mega famous for American Beauty where he played a seriously creepy person.

Is it possible people are conflating the two? Say the name 'Kevin Spacey' to Mr and that film is what I think of.

Probably the same for a lot of people. But I don't know. I didn't hear the evidence.

To me*

Is it possible people are conflating the two?

Oh yes, you’ve solved the problem. That’s what it is.

Oh behave you sarky mare. It was a suggestion.

People do have very short memories don't they?

People's belief that KS is a creep doesn't rely on his tendency to play creeps, or the evidence in this particular case: it derives from the events of 2017

" Rapp sued Spacey for sexual assault, sexual battery, and intentional infliction of emotional distress under the Child Victims Act.[122]
Fifteen others then came forward alleging similar abuse,[123] including Bostonanchorwoman Heather Unruh, who alleged that Spacey sexually assaulted her son;[124][125]filmmaker Tony Montana; actor Roberto Cavazos;[126] Richard Dreyfuss' son Harry;[127]and eight people who worked on House of Cards.[128] The Guardian was contacted by "a number of people" who alleged that Spacey "groped and behaved in an inappropriate way with young men" as artistic director of the Old Vic.[129][130][131]
Spacey also appears on flight logs from Jeffrey Epstein's private jet from the early 2000s." Wikipedia

Anthony Rapp lost his civil case against Spacey, and none of the criminal cases have succeeded for various reasons, but there still were a lot of credible allegations of creepy behaviour. I personally wouldn't employ him unless all of my staff and customers were female or over fifty.

😲

So much speculation on this thread from thick juries to it doesn't prove he's innocent.

I have always said it Mumsneter's are judge and jury. Who knows why they found him innocent but if they want to take him to court again they better have more evidence without there will be no conviction.

It literally doesn’t “prove he’s innocent” because they didn’t, and can’t “find him innocent”. They only find people guilty or not guilty. That’s the actual law. Any MNer is entitled to any opinion on any case that they want to have, as people have done on everything since time began, and it has no bearing on the actual legal case, which is over now anyway.