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Original poster

Kevin Spacey

250 replies

Gotmygladragson · 26/07/2023 16:37

Just saw the not guilty verdict. I haven’t been following it closely but from the bits I have seen, I’m surprised. Was this what was expected?

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Snugglemonkey · 27/07/2023 07:08

AtomicBlondeRose · 26/07/2023 16:56

I vividly remember years ago - I mean it must have been 2003/4 - visiting a friend in London who had a friend who worked at the Old Vic and who said that Spacey had quite a reputation for being “a bit of a tart”, so I can well believe these accusations.

There is a big difference between being a but of a tart and assaulting people though!

Needmorelego · 27/07/2023 07:09

@LawnmowerBlues obviously I can’t go into details but basically we were given a list of names - if we knew any of those people you couldn’t be on the Jury.
The Police Force was a large part of the case so anyone who worked or had close family members in the Police Force couldn’t be on the jury. Anyone who had/did worked or had family members or any links with a specific company couldn’t be on the Jury.
This was about 6 or 7 years ago.

LawnmowerBlues · 27/07/2023 07:15

Needmorelego · 27/07/2023 07:09

@LawnmowerBlues obviously I can’t go into details but basically we were given a list of names - if we knew any of those people you couldn’t be on the Jury.
The Police Force was a large part of the case so anyone who worked or had close family members in the Police Force couldn’t be on the jury. Anyone who had/did worked or had family members or any links with a specific company couldn’t be on the Jury.
This was about 6 or 7 years ago.

Ok so this pretty much tallies with what I said - anyone with real world connections to the people and organisations in the case is ineligible.

(Interesting about the police thing - in my case several of the witnesses were police officers, but I don't remember this being asked of potential jurors - but I suppose every case is different and in mine it was just policemen describing what they had witnessed during arrest).

Not the same as whether someone is a Kevin Spacey fan, a film fan, loves celebrities, has certain views on sexual assault and #metoo, or anything else that people might think could sway the jury here.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Films
WeGotTheClap · 27/07/2023 07:19

And Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson were also innocent...

Money can buy you the best lawyers sometimes.

Needmorelego · 27/07/2023 07:20

@LawnmowerBlues but I expect the potential Jurors would have had to fill out a similar survey.
Anyone with links to the Old Vic and/or film and TV companies that KS was involved in would have probably been dismissed as they potentially couldn’t be impartial (due to work place gossip and rumours).

Needmorelego · 27/07/2023 07:22

@LawnmowerBlues the Judge could have worded the survey in a way that would show if a potential juror is unlikely to be impartial (ie president of a KS fan club).

AgnesX · 27/07/2023 07:32

MsFannySqueers · 26/07/2023 16:48

I expected that verdict. I have no idea how Kevin Spacey conducts himself. There was from what I could glean no actual evidence against him other than his accusers claims. No one should be found guilty just on the hearsay of another person, without concrete evidence against them.

In all of these cases it's always "he said, they said" and the likelihood of whatever was claimed actually having happened.

However you look at it it's 10 years of his life down the drain and mud sticks...

AutumnCrow · 27/07/2023 07:39

It’s fascinating to hear about the world of jury service.

LawnmowerBlues · 27/07/2023 07:40

@Needmorelego it's interesting, I just had a quick read of this (clearly I'm bored 😂):
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/jury-vetting
So there actually is some provision to challenge the inclusion of a juror who has shown bias e.g. "expressed hostility" (so I guess if I'd tweeted "hope Kevin Spacey rots in jail" that could rule me out), but even so it sounds like quite a palaver and quite unusual. Not how it is in American cases. Though I suppose in celebrity cases there's more potential for it, as everyone has already heard of the defendant. But it seemed like you and the other poster were suggesting the opposite - that the jurors would have been picked for their favourability to Spacey, hence the not guilty verdict. Did I misunderstand?

Yes, of course if someone had worked for the Old Vic etc then I'd expect them to declare themselves ineligible.

Jury Vetting | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/jury-vetting

lking12 · 27/07/2023 07:42

I think the burden of proof is far too high in these cases with word against word of course that’s not enough for a jury to convict.

I live in London and friends who are associated with the globe theatre, even I heard he was predatory before the allegations came out, I was not surprised to hear them!

LawnmowerBlues · 27/07/2023 07:43

lking12 · 27/07/2023 07:42

I think the burden of proof is far too high in these cases with word against word of course that’s not enough for a jury to convict.

I live in London and friends who are associated with the globe theatre, even I heard he was predatory before the allegations came out, I was not surprised to hear them!

I think this is basically it... I don't think the allegations were fabricated, but it's a very difficult charge to prove.

lking12 · 27/07/2023 07:46

lking12 · 27/07/2023 07:42

I think the burden of proof is far too high in these cases with word against word of course that’s not enough for a jury to convict.

I live in London and friends who are associated with the globe theatre, even I heard he was predatory before the allegations came out, I was not surprised to hear them!

I mean the old Vic….. but that’s the kind of slip up the defence would jump on to prove inaccuracy and it’s just human error!

inigomontoyahwillcox · 27/07/2023 07:50

I do think he has probably acted inappropriately and creepily, possibly even used his position to attempt (or succeed?) to coerce people into doing what he wanted them to do.

Whether that crossed a line into criminality- well, it seems not. But I hope rather than using his experience as evidence he can behave how he likes and get away with it, he reevaluates his past behaviour and adjusts it accordingly.

bellac11 · 27/07/2023 07:50

lking12 · 27/07/2023 07:42

I think the burden of proof is far too high in these cases with word against word of course that’s not enough for a jury to convict.

I live in London and friends who are associated with the globe theatre, even I heard he was predatory before the allegations came out, I was not surprised to hear them!

Would you think the burden of proof is too high if you were the accused?

WandaWonder · 27/07/2023 07:51

lking12 · 27/07/2023 07:42

I think the burden of proof is far too high in these cases with word against word of course that’s not enough for a jury to convict.

I live in London and friends who are associated with the globe theatre, even I heard he was predatory before the allegations came out, I was not surprised to hear them!

So a person should be convicted soley one person saying 'they did it' sure you would hope if someone says a person committed a crime they did infact do it but parents have accused expartners of sexual abuse, there have been cases of women (and I presume men although I cannot recall) falsely accusing a man (could be women again I cant recall) of rape because he broke up with her or other reasons

Sure people can say it never happens it is all lies but it does happen and what if one of our children were accused would we want them locked up just on the say so of another person?

Clymene · 27/07/2023 07:54

Let's hope that the next generation of powerful predatory sleazy men are learning a lesson here. You can't get away with this sort of behaviour any more and it's like to ruin your career.

lovenotwar149 · 27/07/2023 07:57

He's guilty as f*. in my opinion

I see the error of my ways. I dont know him. He has been acquitted too. My gut feeling about him tells me he has done mean things. But to say He's guilty as f*. is a complete mistake on my part. Apologies

LizzieSiddal · 27/07/2023 08:01

You either have faith in the criminal justice system or you don’t.

You can have faith in the criminal justice system and still accept they sometimes. get it wrong.

Just yesterday a man was found to have imprisoned for 17 years for a rape he did not commit.

LizzieSiddal · 27/07/2023 08:05

Harvey Weinstein had “rumours” about his behaviour for decades (as has Kevin Spacey) People were told to shut the fuck up, they were told it was not true, that the women were all making it up. Just like comments on this thread!
Keep making excuses for predators, and they will keep getting away with it.

WandaWonder · 27/07/2023 08:07

LizzieSiddal · 27/07/2023 08:05

Harvey Weinstein had “rumours” about his behaviour for decades (as has Kevin Spacey) People were told to shut the fuck up, they were told it was not true, that the women were all making it up. Just like comments on this thread!
Keep making excuses for predators, and they will keep getting away with it.

How is saying it should go to court and people not be convicted just because people say so making excuses?

lking12 · 27/07/2023 08:07

It wasn’t just one person though it’s was tens of people and a pattern of behaviour. If the burden of proof was lower I’d expect the punishment to be less, I.e sign sexual offenders register but no custodial sentence.
In Scotland they have the not proven verdict because so many people walk away “innocent” when actually the burden of proof hadn’t been met. However it’s been criticised as being used too heavily used when juries might have otherwise chosen guilty (not sure if it’s still in use).

Dotcheck · 27/07/2023 08:09

RegentCafe · 26/07/2023 16:51

Didnt expect anything different
he always comes across as a nice guy

lets hope he gets his job back!

🙄

newnamethanks · 27/07/2023 08:14

The burden of proof is not too high. If 3 of your neighbours, for instance, get together and accuse someone in your family of raping them, would you like to see that person convicted on their word? 17 years in prison for that kind of error. Proof, not gossip, is essential.

LindorDoubleChoc · 27/07/2023 08:16

I'm very surprised at the verdict. It takes a lot to get a case to trial and there were a number of accusers - are they all lying? So, yes, there's no smoke without fire.

This will add to the shocking number of sexual abuse cases that don't end in a prosecution.

What point are pps making "he's a fine actor though" - yes, and so fucking what??

TheUsualChaos · 27/07/2023 08:17

I'll eat my hat if he's innocent but as is so often the case, particularly in America it seems, money will get you out of any bother.